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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
911–920 of 1001 posts
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#912Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the way that the UK has passed laws for a while now, make them so broad that they potentially criminalise everyone, then selectively prosecute. This is a very obvious setup for future totalitarianism. I’m surprised that the British public stands for it, but I guess they must not care.
People here are very passive and used to being pulled around. It's insane how far people's rights have eroded already. No right to protest, no right for privacy - what's next on the chopping block?
The impression I have is that (some) people in the UK protest but are ignored, vilified, or punished for it. And then nothing changes.
The last time I wrote to my MP, I got a form letter back basically saying "Don't bother contacting us, only The Party matters". (I mean, those weren't the words at all; but having had lame-but-bespoke messages back from them in the past, this was a noticeable and disheartening change).
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#913Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, after all the docs leaked by Snowden et al? After it has been shown time and time again that Apple give any customer data to the US government that they ask for? Trump as your president?! Thats right, the UK is the creepy nanny state!
Why can't they both be bad?
Because Apple is an American company. They should feel protected, enabled even, to resist censorship and surveillance under American law. American regulation should stop Apple from exporting harmful or substandard cryptography. American researchers should be working with Apple to discover dangerous exploits. America doesn't seem to care about any of that, which is why it's primarily America's fault for exporting backdoorable cryptography to the UK.
Instead, Tim Cook is writing checks to the NSO Group's favorite President, fighting regulators, suing security researchers, and turning a blind eye to Elon illegally collecting secret Apple testimonies despite his declared opposition to Apple's business.
The UK is begging for scraps, America has been mass-manufacturing dragnet surveillance for years. And Apple even keeps shut about it: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve...
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#914Headline should be "Someone other than US want's to access your data and that's scandalous for some reason".
For clarification. I do not want to give them backdoor to users data. I just think that it's understendable that they too desire it.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#915Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?
Didn’t these leaks precisely show that the agencies were effectively above the law? I mean, they tried to make it look like they were abiding by the regulations, but effectively tried every work around they could come up with. Including subcontracting domestic spying to foreign intelligence agencies, using the exact mechanism the parent mentioned? It seems you’re contradicting them by making their point.
It show that no matter the scope of the law there are always loopholes.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#916Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple still has legal entities in the UK. Pulling out cloud services would be insufficient to prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities.
> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.
The opposite is happening all the time - i.e. US demanding access to European data from Facebook and Google et al. It is not one-sided.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#917It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
It baffles me how you seem to think intelligence agencies have some sort of morals or sense of duty to their citizens. These organisations are set up with the sole purpose of spying on all people. They have done it for decades and have done it in some fantasticly dispicable ways. So no, asking a corporation for data on their customers is probably is probably a relatively weak action for them to pull on the grand sche…
Sure, but something like this isn't limited to just the spy agencies. They don't have the authority to do something like this on their own. Therefore there must be some buy-in from people outside the intelligence communities such as MPs, members of Congress (in US), etc. Those are the groups I think GP's comment deserves an answer to.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#918It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
This problem starts when people in power are addicted to power and are accountable to foreign agents and not the population.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#919It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
I very much agree. I think to many people the preference for safety/security over privacy is just very tilted toward the former. That especially becomes true once there is some incident that triggers people's amygdalas, like a terrorist attack or even petty crime. Nothing makes "privacy" seem stupid like getting assaulted or otherwise victimized. Although I'm heavily skewed toward the "privacy" end of the spectrum, I do understand people's need and desire for safety above privacy/freedom. I wish they would recognize when they're decision-making is being driven by emotion rather than logic, but alas we can't change humanity.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#920Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it any different with Android phones? From what I've read it doesn't seem so. My comment applies just as much to the people working at Apple and Google as to the folks in the UK government.
It is, Android handsets are not prevented by Google from selecting an entirely different operating system if they distrust the one installed by the OEM. It is expressly the choice you would make if you expected userland encryption to be mandated broken. It doesn't protect against every attack (eg. Stingray or evil maid) but it absolutely would protect you from a situation like the one in the OP. Breaking your encrypt…
I tend to agree but I'd generalize it a bit more by changing it to: "It starts with UK citizens buying [phones from most tech companies] and expecting their data to be private at all."