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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

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Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#911

Post by PeterStuer »

Imnimo wrote: post #320

I think there's two different things going on here: "DeepSeek trained on our outputs and that's not fair because those outputs are ours, and you shouldn't take other peoples' data!" This is obviously extremely silly, because that's exactly how OpenAI got all of its training data in the first place - by scraping other peoples' data off the internet. "DeepSeek trained on our outputs, and so their claims of replicating…

Ironically Deepseek is doing what OpenAI originally pledged to do. Making the model open and free is a gift to humanity.

Look at the whole AI revolution that Meta and others have bootstrapped by opening their models. Meanwhile OpenAI/Microsoft, Antropic, Google and the rest are just trying to look after number 1 while trying to regulatory capture an AI for me but not for thee outcome of full control.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#912

Post by xinayder »

> OpenAI declined to comment further or provide details of its evidence. Its terms of service state users cannot “copy” any of its services or “use output to develop models that compete with OpenAI”.

Well, this sounds like they are just crying because they are losing the race so far. Besides, DeepSeek explicitly states they did a study on distillation on ChatGPT, then OpenAI is like "oh see guys they used our models!!!!!"

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#914

Post by Denote6737 »

seizethecheese wrote: post #868
bangaladore wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ? Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. There are many providers hosting the ~700B parameter version that aren't CCP aligned.

> Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. Like music? They banned napster

Yet I can still download music. Check mate.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#915

Post by khazhoux »

jamil7 wrote: post #908
mrkpdl wrote: post #676

The cat is out of the bag. This is the landscape now, r1 was made in a post-o1 world. Now other models can distill r1 and so on. I don’t buy the argument that distilling from o1 undermines deep seek’s claims around expense at all. Just as open AI used the tools ‘available to them’ to train their models (eg everyone else’ data), r1 is using today’s tools. Does open AI really have a moral or ethical high ground here?

Agree 100%, this was also bound to happen eventually, OpenAI could have just remained more "open" from the beginning and embraced the inevitable commoditization of these models. What did delaying this buy them?

What did delaying this cost them, though? Hurt feelings of people here who thought OpenAI personally pledged openness to them?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#916

Post by khazhoux »

xinayder wrote: post #912

> OpenAI declined to comment further or provide details of its evidence. Its terms of service state users cannot “copy” any of its services or “use output to develop models that compete with OpenAI”. Well, this sounds like they are just crying because they are losing the race so far. Besides, DeepSeek explicitly states they did a study on distillation on ChatGPT, then OpenAI is like "oh see guys they used our models!…

By what metric are they losing?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#917

Post by wqaatwt »

vitaflo wrote: post #862
buyucu wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet ''ban DeepSeek'' voices will start soon. Why compete, when you can just ban?

All you would do by banning it is killing US progress in AI. The rest of the world is still going to be able to use DS. You're just giving the rest of the world a leg up. TikTok is a consumption tool, DS is a productive one. They aren't the same.

What’s so special about DeepSeek, though? I mean anyone else can replicate their methods and catch up. They don’t have a moat anyway.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#918

Post by jamil7 »

khazhoux wrote: post #915
jamil7 wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%, this was also bound to happen eventually, OpenAI could have just remained more "open" from the beginning and embraced the inevitable commoditization of these models. What did delaying this buy them?

What did delaying this cost them, though? Hurt feelings of people here who thought OpenAI personally pledged openness to them?

> What did delaying this cost them, though?

It potentially cost the whole field in terms of innovation. For OpenAI specifically, they now need to scramble to come up with a differentiated business model that makes sense in the new landscape and can justify their valuation. OpenAI’s valuation is based on being the dominant AI company.

I think you misread my comment if you think my feelings are somehow hurt here.

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