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TikTok goes dark in the US

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Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#911

Post by stale2002 »

mcherm wrote: post #766
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

An an American, I also find it outrageous. In fact, as I understand it, our most fundamental law (the Constitution) clearly guarantees "freedom of speech and freedom of the press" which specifically means that the government may NOT shut down a particular publisher because the government does not like what they say, or who it is that owns them. Unfortunately, our Supreme Court unanimously disagrees with me about what…

They don't have to shut down. They can simply divest.

We don't allow own telephone system to be foreign owned, and those laws have been around for 90 years, and nobody is crying about free speech over that.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#913

Post by japanification »

dtquad wrote: post #881
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

As a European I noticed all the neo-authoritarian Russia supporters crying on X and BlueSky and therefore support the US ban on Tiktok. I am usually against the EU frenchies making up new regulations but they get a pass if they manage to ban Tiktok.

[flagged]

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#914

Post by whimsicalism »

hunglee2 wrote: post #440

Bottom line is: it is reasonable for governments to exercise control over the information environment their citizens experience, especially when social media has such potential to sow chaos and instability. Look at how the US internet fuelled the fires of the Arab Spring / HK protests / Jan 6th / Any number of colour revolutions in Europe. Even today, we see X being used as a platform to encourage protests against go…

is there any way i could get a “real adult” pass or something like it so those in charge can treat me like an actually intelligent human being?

“we should restrict the information environment because the masses can’t handle it and it causes chaos and instability” is the exact same argument that well-educated Chinese use for why their country can’t be a democracy.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#915

Post by mancerayder »

gchamonlive wrote: post #829
mancerayder wrote: post #817

Let's put aside freedom of speech and Meta v China for a moment: Has anyone suspected foreign interference in our social media during the height of the culture wars in the last decade? We had people encouraging civil unrest on the Left (whenever there was some police shooting or event where racism was suspected), and we had people encouraging civil unrest on the right (an immigrant committed a crime, or similar). We…

I think it does, but you make it sound like it's a symmetric information war. It's not. From your examples de difference is that we've witnessed police brutality in the us with countless examples of excessive force (the hood and the knee to the throat are example. Whereas the same cannot be said for immigrants, first because I think it's an opinion that wins votes for these anti-stablishment ultra right wing, second…

You completely missed the point. The point is that there appear to be foreign actors encouraging divisions in the American population. The point was definitely not, this side is naughty and that other side is wholesome, or vice-versa, or they're equal, and let's debate. Nope, let's not debate that please.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#916

Post by Gimpei »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

You shouldn’t. Lest we forget, China has banned all American social media companies and quite a few other tech companies. Why shouldn’t the US do the same? Red Note should probably be banned too. The condition to lift the ban? Allow google, facebook, snap, etc in China. Until that day, I don’t understand why this is even a question.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#917

Post by wumeow »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #209
wumeow wrote: post #128

This shutdown is performative, by the way. The law prohibits the distribution, maintenance, or updating of the application. There's no reason to disable the app for users who already have it installed except to generate outrage. No one reads the actual law, everyone is taking the bait. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521

I'm not a lawyer but if "maintenance" is interpreted broadly, it might include any operation or service that keeps the app running, which could mean they cannot serve content even if they never updated the app again. Serving content could be seen as an ongoing maintenance activity. The bill also prohibits the provision of "internet hosting services" for the app. Serving content over the internet could be considered p…

Maybe, but it’s back now. It was performative.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#918

Post by uneekname »

psiconaut wrote: post #480

There's an interesting cognitive bias in the western media that tends to define freedom of the press (and freedom of expression) as exactly what is perceived as freedom in this side of the iron curtain. Libgen domains are "seized", and tiktok "goes dark", but of course other countries "censor" porn or news outlets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index

Yes. I was recently in Indonesia and shocked at how many high-profile sites are blocked at the DNS-level there, e.g. Reddit.

Is Reddit a great place? Eh. Is it critical to daily life in Indonesia? Of course not. But what I witnessed was censorship, full-stop.

I understand that the U.S. is not blocking TikTok at the DNS level. And that there are valid concerns over sharing user data and government influence over TikTok. But in my view, this is still censorship. Instead of allowing individuals decide whether or not to use TikTok, my government decided to ban it.

The whole argument over selling TikTok to a U.S.-based company is bullshit, imo. What kind of precedent is that? I use online services from all over the world, and in doing so decide to allow my usage to fall (to some extent) under the jurisdiction of that country.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#919

Post by mancerayder »

whimsicalism wrote: post #910
mancerayder wrote: post #817

Let's put aside freedom of speech and Meta v China for a moment: Has anyone suspected foreign interference in our social media during the height of the culture wars in the last decade? We had people encouraging civil unrest on the Left (whenever there was some police shooting or event where racism was suspected), and we had people encouraging civil unrest on the right (an immigrant committed a crime, or similar). We…

i think we are more than capable of causing unrest all on our own

We are, but if foreign actors are adding fuel to the fire then should the government act. That's the topic.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#920

Post by motorest »

Spooky23 wrote: post #772
moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

It’s offensive to the notion of free speech as Americans profess to respect. If the capabilities of these services are so dangerous, we should have laws and rules to control the danger. Instead we’ve done some nationalist cowing to send a message, and we’re arm-twisting Zuck to adapt Facebook to the political expediency of the moment.

> It’s offensive to the notion of free speech as Americans profess to respect.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. China's CCP spying and conducting psyops is not free speech, and forcing China to sell it's controlling position on TikTok has nothing to do with free speech.

That's, amusing enough, the propaganda that's being pushed onto you, which even forces you to criticize a policy that you failed to even be informed about it's rationale and main points. You're fooled into believing that eliminating one of China's attack vectors is somehow an attack on free speech.

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