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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#911
post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, I didn't know that Israeli troops also controlled Egypt.

Israel certainly has agreements and treaties with Egypt that would make it difficult for Egypt not to do what the Israelis say regarding the border. Agreements and treaties made at a time and situation where Egypt didn't have much leverage. Egypt is not free, for example, to allow aid in that Israel has not specifically approved.

> Egypt is not free, for example, to allow aid in that Israel has not specifically approved.

Yes it is. You can't just make stuff up and lie to people.

What makes you think that's okay? Because you feel it's 'for the right cause?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, I didn't know that Israeli troops also controlled Egypt.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that statement, but I guess you're somehow implying it's not US-backed Israel's fault that they prevents legitimate goods (such as crayons, seeds, fishing rods etc) from entering Gaza... because Egypt? Whataboutism aside, it's well known that US-backed Israel is indeed largely in control of what Egypt does and does not do in regard to Gaza.

It's not whataboutism!

If you said the only way to cross the Atlantic was by boat and I said you could fly that's not whataboutism

> it's well known that US-backed Israel is indeed largely in control of what Egypt does

No it's not. You can't just make stuff up

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#913
post #608
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, let's quiz you then: What country currently has millions of people are risk of starving to death due to war? I'll give you more clues: it's also one of the largest mass displacements of people due to war in current times, with plenty of rape and ethnic cleansing. I will of course want to see how many comments you've posted about the topic, and how many HN submissions. Since obviously this war is many times larg…

Ah I see, the common whataboutism combined with a little bit of antisemitism accusations. Good one.

That's not whataboutism, the issue at hand is that no one cares about conflicts unless Jews are involved, and I just proved that to you. Whataboutism would be for you to reply to me, I was the one who started the statement.

And you seem incredibly obsessed with this conflict - but no others.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#914

I appreciate that this is on here and I hope we can collectively handle it. Tech isn't isolated from this situation, as difficult as it is to admit and talk about with civility and care. A US military software engineer even self immolated recently in protest of what's happening. I don't see what's happening in Gaza as being culturally particular to the specific identity groups involved here. It's a very human situati…

There is an interesting and delicate conversation about how a twenty-something engineer in the military ends up frequenting anti-military and anti-democracy subreddits. I think that fits in with hn. There is another interesting and delicate conversation about what that person thought about Gaza and about Israeli Jews, and where those ideas came from. He posted on Reddit that Hamas's stated intent to destroy Israel -…

In every legal system, intent without capacity is not considered to be intent. It is so laughable and pathetic, frankly, that you brought it up at all.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you are one of the people seeing WW1 and 2 as the new 30 years war. Ok. Still wrong saying tze assination started WW2, and oversimolyfied saying it started WW1. Worth pointing out that your view is still not mainstream.

The two wars are directly linked: the treatment of Germany by the Allies after WWI directly caused the rise of the NSDAP and Hitler. WWI is well-known to have been kicked off with the assassination, though the whole thing was a powderkeg before that.

They are linked, for sure. The Versaille treaty and reparations did not directly cause the Nazi's rise to power so. I know it is a popular believe, it is just not the case. At best, they were a Nazi talking point. After all, the pre-Nazi goverment got rid of them. Same for the economic downturn, no direct link to Nazi popularity. It simply made it a little bit easier for them.

Re WW1: The assassination gave the Austrians the excuse to pose excagerated demands on Serbia. Because Austrian leadership, politically but especially military, wanted to conquer the Balkans. Austria got German support for those demands after Russia got involved on Serbias side, Germany was affraid a war with Russia was inevitable and would be unwinnable for Germany at a later date (history would proof both of these points correct).

Proof for the assassination being a welcome excuse, and not the reason: Serbia agreed to basically all of Austria's demands. Austria refused on basis of minor details, and the fact thatvthey needed an excuse. Back the day, formal declarations of war and acceptable excuses were still a thing in diplomacy, truely more civilized days in some regards.

After Austria declared war on Serbia, and launched its almost failed invasion, all the existing treaties kicked in: Austria and Germany declared war on Russia, France and Britain declared war on the central powers, including the Ottoman Empire, and events couldn't be stopped anymore. After all, everyone believen it would be a quick affaire, akin to the war of 1870. Didn't work out like that.

After the war, the German Empire was no more. The ancient guard and Prussian royalists were as opposed to the Weimar Republic as were the communists and Nazis (they came later). The result was a mess politically. When the conservatives failed to gain a majority in parliament, in part because society driffted away from the middle to the fringes left and right (immensly supported by mas media, radio, and Hitlers and the Nazis brilliant use of that as well as air travel, Hitler sometimes held two rallies the same day in different parts of Germany), they formed a coalition led by tze NSDAP. Conservative leadership hoped they could control the "Austrian private". They couldn't.

Which brings me to another myth: The Nazis were never led legitimate government. Truth is, they did. The first election on 1933 was in deed free and as fair as the other ones in the Weimar era. The fact that the NSDAP needed a coalition is normal, Germany was back the, and is today, a multi-party system. The times one party won a majority and not a mere plurality are extremely rare. Hence, the fust Nazi-led government was legitimate, they won that role fair and square.

The interesting, and today extremely important, part is thus: Once the Nazis were in power, they lost no time dismantling democracy from within. The next election the same year were the opposite of free and fair. The Nazis used their party apparatus, very well established across Germany, as a shadow govenrmwnt and administration. They used violence and every other trick in the book to manipulate the election outcome. It worked, they won a majority. And with that majority, their shadow party government and the additional powers assigned to the Chancellor, thay took power. When Hindenburg died, they merged the powers of Prwsident and Chancellor into the role of the Fuhrer, and their power grab was done.

The lesson of this being: democracies are a fragile beast, they can be attacked and destroyed from within if we are not carefull. And when this happens, well, the outcome usually is very, very ugly. Everybody should keep that in mind when they vote in 2024, regardless of where they are.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We actually have very clear examples from history of how to turn an enemy into a friend: the Marshall plan Japan, Germany, and Italy's people didn't practice a religion that required them to hate Americans. For Germany and Italy in particular, they followed (basically) the same religion as most Americans. Japan never really had much religion. And none of these WWII powers were theocratic states in any way, or govern…

You do know that the vast majority of Muslim people live in countries that don't have any higher hatred of the USA than the average person, right? The largest Muslim country is Indonesia, followed by Bangladesh and Pakistan. So religion has nothing to do with this. The fact that Palestine is ruled by extremists is not a happenstance, it is a direct consequence of how the Palestinian people have been treated after the…

>What we are seeing are the exact same consequences of the Versailles agreement after WW1, with Germany becoming more and more radicalized because of the extreme economic conditions until a deranged lunatic came to power. This didn't repeat after WW2 exactly because, instead of occupying the defeated countries or imposing harsh economic penalties (both of which Israel did to Palestine after the war) we helped them build up.

You're missing some stuff. In Germany, the Allies didn't just build them up economically and hope for the best, they carried out a strong de-Nazification campaign to basically brainwash everyone out of the Nazi ideology that they had brainwashed themselves into. It wasn't like the Germans suddenly all realized they were wrong and horrible and their racist ideology was bad. This is the same reason the US tried similar de-Baathification after defeating Iraq.

For something similar to happen in Gaza, Israel needs to completely and utterly defeat the ruling government there, then use military forces to occupy the land and create a military government for a while until a civilian government, completely controlled by Israel, can be set up. Meanwhile, they have to control education and teach the Gazans, forcefully (i.e., no free-speech allowed), that their ideology is wrong (along with their interpretation of their Islamic religion). Anyone who publicly supports the atrocities of Hamas get to go to prison. (In Germany, denying the Holocaust or supporting the Nazi government is a criminal offense, remember.)

Is this really what you want?

>You do know that the vast majority of Muslim people live in countries that don't have any higher hatred of the USA than the average person, right? The largest Muslim country is ... So religion has nothing to do with this.

First, this isn't about the USA, it's about Israel vs. Gaza. The people in Gaza hate Israel.

Secondly, talking about Indonesia is like equating Catholics and Protestants, when they've historically hated each other and had wars. They might all be "Muslims" to you, but they're not the same and their beliefs aren't the same. Looking at the last century, it's pretty obvious that Middle Eastern Muslims are not happy about having a Jewish-dominated country in their midst. They aren't even happy about having different kinds of Muslims living around them, which is why they've had so many Sunni vs Shia wars, or ISIS who hated everyone who wasn't as ridiculously extremist as themselves.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#917
post #839
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is there any evidence that Israel has targeted journalists intentionally that weren't involved in the fighting? Yes my dear, there's plenty. Many journalists had an airstrike called on their homes. Some were not in it at the time, others were killd with their families while not involved in the fighting or on the frontline. Many journalists also received direct threats from Israeli intelligence agencies pushing them…

Airstrikes also happen in the context of attacking an entire building or called during a firefight I am not saying journalists weren’t targeted when they were involved in the fighting or part of Hamas. I am saying whether you have evidence that journalists were targeted for being journalists like you are implying, and that is evidence i don’t think you have

You're the one claiming that journalists weren't targeted for being a journalist based on what? your hunch? Are you listening to yourself?

I'm not interested in your personal opinion and what you think. Maybe this and maybe that happened. If I wanted fiction, there are better options. I provided evidence of multiple documented cases and there are many more. If you can't refute them, you're blind just following your bias. Just be open about it.

I'm not interested in the stories your mind made up to feel better about murdering more civilians. I need reality.

The reality, like documented here and elsewhere, is that many journalists were targeted with airstrikes and received direct threats.

You're the one with the ridiculous claim here, that all these journalists that got blown up weren't targeted. Can you support that claim?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#918
post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel certainly has agreements and treaties with Egypt that would make it difficult for Egypt not to do what the Israelis say regarding the border. Agreements and treaties made at a time and situation where Egypt didn't have much leverage. Egypt is not free, for example, to allow aid in that Israel has not specifically approved.

> Egypt is not free, for example, to allow aid in that Israel has not specifically approved. Yes it is. You can't just make stuff up and lie to people. What makes you think that's okay? Because you feel it's 'for the right cause?

You can read quotes from Israeli officials about their approval process for the Rafah crossing. They've also bombed the crossing when they feel like the process isn't being followed.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypts-sisi-accuse...

Aside from Israeli quotes, the above article includes Sisi's comments on the process.

If you have some credible source saying Egypt can get goods into Gaza without Israeli approval, I'd love to see it.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us will happily take the non-normative side on things like this as well.

I take issue with people taking a "non-normative" approach on things like human rights. Especially if donso happily !

I like when people take issue with me, shame it rarely amounts to much more than the subsequent chaos that ensues because humans refuse to resolve their differences via communication.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

Open your eyes. That's just post justification for when the IDF destroys schools, mosques and hospitals.

I'm listening. Do you have evidence of IDF planting evidence? Do you have motivation for why they would do this?
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