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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#911

Post by hluska »

nonviol wrote: post #833
hluska wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other options does Israel have?

Two states along the 1967 borders. If Israel and the US agreed to this, the international community would overwhelmingly support it. This would be more than enough to guarantee Israel's security.

As one of many examples in the last several decades, the Oslo accords were moving in that direction. Hamas stepped up the violence to such an extent that the death by terrorism rate in Israel increased almost 600% and Itzhak Rabin was assassinated. The public isn’t sure what happened to Yassar Arafat but it didn’t end well for him either. Rabin’s language was changing quickly and given another few years, entity would have likely changed to state.

We’re looking for ideas that end in less violence and where the leaders involved aren’t assassinated.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#912

Post by acdha »

shiroiuma wrote: post #886
acdha wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying it’s impossible but that it’s a numbers game: if you have a messy battle with Hamas and kill a dozen people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, that’s a dozen lotto tickets for the n% chance that one of the people who knew them succumbs to the propaganda saying the answer is to join Hamas and strike back. Angry people make rash decisions, especially if they think they don’t have choices. I w…

>or, say, the United States gives a big chunk of BLM land to anyone who wants to emigrate For people who don't know, especially non-Americans, "BLM land" refers to unoccupied rural, wild land mainly in the western US states that's owned and managed by the federal government's Bureau of Land Management. It has nothing to do with the Black Lives Matter movement.

Hah, yes, I should have clarified since that is way more confusing now than it used to be.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#913

Post by za3faran »

xg15 wrote: post #880
za3faran wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you have sources for both claims? I saw no reason not to believe the rape accusations of Hamas - many women came forward with this and it would absolutely fit with all the other things Hamas did on Oct. 7 - how they paraded around Shani Louk and then later killed her. Unfortunately, rape by Israeli guards of Palestinian captives would also be believable from the reports you hear about treatments of captives.

As far as I'm aware, there is no single first person testimony of the rape, let alone any independently verified forensic reports. We've seen so many debunked stories coming out of israeli side. Remember the 40 beheaded babies that biden supposedly saw then the white house had to quickly back out of? Or the story that pregnant women were cut up alive and their fetuses extracted? Or that babies were thrown in the ovens? Let's also not forget their many lies before, like how they denied killing Shireen Abu Akleh.

These outrageous claims are fitting with the panic then overreaction we're seeing on the israeli side, resulting in them shelling their own kibutzes, and now murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians in cold blood, after announcing terrible things like they're not looking for accuracy, but damage, and that they're fighting "human animals". Not only that, but some stories like the last two in the previous paragraph have actually been documented to have been done by israelis during previous massacres like Der Yassin and Sabra and Shatila.

As far as the abuse done by israel on Palestinian women and even children

[1] https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-ab...

[2] https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-cr...

[3] https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-pa...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#914

Post by polski-g »

seo-speedwagon wrote: post #551
amluto wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think your take is entirely unreasonable, but I do think you’ve missed a critical detail: Hamas continues to attack Israel. So Israel’s military operation is contemporaneous with a threat, and does at least serve some degree of self-defense purpose. As I understand it (and wow, the press coverage is incomplete in so many ways), Hamas has a very large number of, approximately, these things: https://en.m.wikipe…

I could just as easily turn that around and say Hamas (which is the legitimately elected government of Gaza) is responding to continuous attacks from Israel. Gaza is the world’s largest concentration camp, blockaded from land, sea and air. In 2018 and 2019 they held continual peaceful protests, which Israel responded to by killing 223 Palestinians and maiming many more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9320…

According to the very article you linked, it seems like the Palestinians who were killed were trying to invade Israel: "with thousands approaching the fence"

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#917

Post by jacooper »

awinograd wrote: post #595
jacooper wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The parent comment is discussing a different hospital, Al-Ahli on Oct 17th, vs Al-Shifa on Nov 10th which is the article you're linking to from NYT. Civilians being injured in a hospital is clearly a tragedy. That's why hospitals normally have protected status during a war and targeting them would be a war crime. However, hospitals (and other protected sites like schools) lose their protected status when they're used…

They were never used as Military centers, they is zero evidence Hamas was there.

And they just committed a new massacre in a school.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/13/israel-ha...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#918

Post by magic123_ »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #884

Flagging this submission should lead to its removal. I'm very disappointed that HN allows political topics now. It's well-known that discussion of one-sided articles like this one doesn't lead to good discussions. It's clearly political, and, even worse, based on a one-sided submission pointing to Al Jazeera, which is driven by ideology and known for publishing way more radical articles in Arabic than in English. The…

So the logic here is, because 80% of a population living in an open air prison for several decades support attacks on the people oppressing them, they deserve to be tortured?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#919

Post by arolihas »

peyton wrote: post #800

> it's important to me to remind people that the US destroyed Iraq in response to 9/11 That is not true. I remember Bush’s address: https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/iraq/new... I would say that US military doctrine has successfully created the most peaceful era in human history as measured by mortality rate due to conflict, and a fundamental part of that is the willingness to confront adversaries w…

What violence ended because of the Iraq campaign?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#920

Post by PawgerZ »

emmelaich wrote: post #444
stoorafa wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve been in touch with Palestinians use HN? Not to seem one-sided, I didn’t realize Gazans had sufficient internet access, let alone food or water, to browse HN.

I thought you were joking for moment; it's easy to find the truth. https://volunteerinpalestine.org/purchasing-a-sim-card/ "Internet Access High-speed Wi-Fi is available throughout the country in homes and in cafes and restaurants throughout the city. Additionally, local banks have publicly available WIFI that can be accessed 24/7 from outside the building. The Wi-Fi is stable and reliable and 3G is also available in…

We're talking about Gaza. This article is about the West Bank, no?

From the article:

> The Wi-Fi is stable and reliable and 3G is also available in the West Bank, Palestine.

> There are shops all around Hebron, including many that are within walking distance from the Excellence Center where travelers can purchase a SIM card and add more minutes to their phone plan.

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