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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

911–920 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#911
post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, specifically, should they have done instead?

After an initial military response, take their time and specifically plan and target the terrorists who were responsible and organized the attacks on the 7.10. Yeah this will obviously take way longer and is harder than levelling Gaza but would avoid eventually bringing the entire world against you and producing much more terrorists than before. At the same time also try to make sure that the civilians in Gaza get hu…

The problem is that Gaza is a hornet's nest

Hamas members are entrenched in civilian buildings and tunnels, and they are well equipped to attack tanks, and they wouldn't hesitate to blow themselves up

it would be suicide for the IDF to do a slow invasion of Gaza, the IDF doesn't have such a big army, and this would drag along and allow hamas leaders to run away, and would allow hamas to regroup.

also, the more time passes, the more it gives hezbollah and other actors to attack.

maybe the US army would have enough foot soldiers to invade by foot and check every street, but again, with human shields and guerilla tactics, it's not sure it would be that much better, because US militaries are probably not really trained enough to deal with such a big hornet's nest that is gaza.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#912
post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After an initial military response, take their time and specifically plan and target the terrorists who were responsible and organized the attacks on the 7.10. Yeah this will obviously take way longer and is harder than levelling Gaza but would avoid eventually bringing the entire world against you and producing much more terrorists than before. At the same time also try to make sure that the civilians in Gaza get hu…

What about the hostages? What about border security? Doing what you say would basically be letting Hamas have their win. It would absolutely embolden them to plan an execute further attacks. The game theory is absolutely clear here. When an attack of this magnitude is carried out, you need to respond with overwhelming force to cutoff the possibility of further escalation. Stop it cold. When Hamas invaded Israel and m…

> What about the hostages?

Legit question and there would have been negotiations happening to exchange hostages for prisoners (like it was done in the past)

> What about border security?

What about it? I didn't say that Isreal should not secure its border. The entire reason why Hamas was successful in the first place was because the border was not secured because the troops were moved and Israel's security services didn't take the warnings and threats seriously that Hamas was planing such an attack.

> The game theory is absolutely clear here. When an attack of this magnitude is carried out, you need to respond with overwhelming force to cutoff the possibility of further escalation. Stop it cold

First, I don't think game theories applies in this conflict and second when did this ever work in the past? At least I would argue that the "war on terror" after 9.11 was anything but successful. Actually compared to the current reaction of Israel the reaction of the US after 9.11 looks very restraint.

> Restraint here is the significant effort that has been taken by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties.

That's a bold claim, looking at the number of civilian deaths in that relative short period of time. Yes I know that the numbers come indirectly from Hamas but they were relatively accurate in the past when they were confirmed afterwards. Most people say Hamas to blame for this because they hide behind civilians. However I would argue that it's neither morally right nor strategically smart to killing dozens of civilians for one Hamas operative. Also Israeli officials were quoted with: "We’re focused on maximum damage and not accuracy" (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/right-now-it-i...).

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#913
post #521
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

So a bunch of terrorists murder 1400+ Jews and commit unspeakable acts against them, and then run and hide in pre-prepared positions behind the civilians that they have been forcibly governing and abusing since 2006, and they are on record as saying that they prepared all of this on purpose, and somehow the civilian casualties are the fault of Israel? Give me a break.

Britain killed a lot more German civilians than Germany killed British civilians in WWII. Does that make the British the bad guys?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#916

This article made it to front with 297 pts and generally it negative towards Israel. I don't think any of the articles about Hamas atrocities and their use of social media made to cause panic and fear made it that far on HN. Back in Oct about a week after the attack Bloomberg 's reporting on the attack and the beginning of the ended up being flagged on NH and only has 23pts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37910…

It's easier for anti-Israel propaganda to be more successful here when the people leading Y-Combinator, who own and manage Hacker News, are also anti-Israel, some possibly antisemitic. If it didn't take sides and mandated neutrality, it would flag content from both sides. If a moderator on HN acts out of line with the policy or sentiments of YC leadership, they would be corrected. The battle of ideas begins with who controls the platform and what their policies are.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#917
post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has never been a war in history where one side stops because they killed enough people. War ends when the enemy surrenders. The Japanese killed a few dozen civilians in Pearl Harbor. America killed 10,000x as many during their bombings of Japan. Had they not surrendered, they likely would have killed an order of magnitude more. The only alternative would have been for the US to completely blockade Japan indefin…

Japanese did enough evil through Asia during WW2 to more than deserve that.

I’d caution against using the word ‘deserve’ so loosely. While you may see it as meaning ‘imperial Japan had to be stopped by any means necessary’, it comes off more like retribution. It comes off like a bloodlust for revenge.

In general, ‘deserve’ should always be followed with ‘because…’. Just saying x deserves y assumes we agree on: what x did, an ethical/moral system, and that y is the best punishment/reward in that ethical/moral system.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#919
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

First of all based on how this Tweet author is writing he sounds like he is on the list of those 30 CEOs that wanted to blacklist anyone from Harvard that signed a pro-Palestinian letter.

I wish they would instead release the full list of the 30 CEOs just like how they are doxxing the students or targeting anyone on Linkedin(via scraping) with a pro-Palestine view. Instead these people are cowards.

Secondly, its been quite fascinating watching over the years the pro-Palestinian view be the minority but then seeing this event finally being the one that broke the camel's back. I always knew that the pro-Palestinian view would become the majority view but there was no way I could have expected it to grow this quickly. Over the last few years, we have seen an erosion of free speech in the US with all these Anti-BDS laws and it just drove me up the wall seeing the right cry about free speech yet have no problem with these laws. It really felt like we were going back for a decade before we could move forward.

But this reaction is just another way that Gen-Z has really surpassed my expectations. Before this event, it was like screaming into the ether but you know what can't be faked or gamed by the Chinese or whoever else hates the US? The enormous protests occurring in the West. These are people making their own decision to go out and spend their time. Thats when I knew this isn't just another internet manipulation hogwash.

Now the powers that be are brushing off all these Gen-Z people by complaining that they have a negative mindset of the world and using protest as a coping mechanism. Elon said this nonsense the other day and I couldn't believe how little he understand Gen-Z. These are the people that watched their older siblings get taken as fools by Obama's "hope and change". They entered the world on the cusp of post-9/11, watched the GFC take hold during childhood and then graduated with loads of debt into the COVID market. Of course they have a pessimistic outlook.

Eventually a Millenial or Gen-Z will take the white house and then things will get really spicy. This really does feel like a generational divide.

Regarding the Indian support of Israel: Now THAT definitely feels like internet manipulation nonsense. I have been following the conflict for over a decade on sites like Reddit, Twitter, and HN and never have I seen so much content from India over this. All of a sudden this is super important to them. Yeah right... :/

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#920
post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

Take that logic further. Israel's enemies outnumber it by 10x or more and are more than ruthless enough to sacrifice as many as necessary*. There's no way ever that Israel could avoid having the other side having more casualties. The same would apply to every minority. If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an…

> Hamas to allow civilians to use its tunnels as shelters.

That is absurd. Israel bombs “facilities used by Hamas”, civilians going in Hamas tunnels will be a direct target for IDF.

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