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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#911

Post by gitfan86 »

a_bonobo wrote: post #903
woodruffw wrote: post #896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely none of this justifies blaming every violent crime on homeless people, as HN is quick to do. SF is not an outlier, nationally, in terms of the proportion of violent crimes perpetrated by people known to their victims.

You're right, here's some data to support your point: >In 2020, the reported violent crime rate in S.F. was 21% below the average of 20 most populous cities other than San Francisco for which there was full 2020 data available. Meanwhile, the city’s property crime rate was 41% above average. >San Francisco’s violent crime rate has declined significantly since the early 1990s – a trend that is consistent with the rest…

If you have no problem living near homeless encampments, that is totally fine, you are welcome to live wherever you want.

Personally, I don't like living in a city where I walk past people pooping on the sidewalk. Which I've witnessed in SF. If you have statistics that people pooping on the sidewalk on the middle of the day happens 20% less often in SF than other cities, then great, I guess I'm just lucky to have not seen that in NYC,BOS,ATL.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#912

Post by kodah »

woodruffw wrote: post #894

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

I'd say that the lesson learned needs to be broader than that. Any time Texas, California, Portland etc are mentioned the culture warriors of the left and right come out. The effect is a lot of lost trust for each other in this community when that happens. I do appreciate the people who posted on the other thread saying they were wrong about assuming a homeless person did it, but this won't be the last time culture war issues land discretely on the front page.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#913

Post by Alupis »

a_bonobo wrote: post #903
woodruffw wrote: post #896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely none of this justifies blaming every violent crime on homeless people, as HN is quick to do. SF is not an outlier, nationally, in terms of the proportion of violent crimes perpetrated by people known to their victims.

You're right, here's some data to support your point: >In 2020, the reported violent crime rate in S.F. was 21% below the average of 20 most populous cities other than San Francisco for which there was full 2020 data available. Meanwhile, the city’s property crime rate was 41% above average. >San Francisco’s violent crime rate has declined significantly since the early 1990s – a trend that is consistent with the rest…

It's important to note just how under-reported SF's crime is. The police don't do anything (for many reasons) so citizens don't bother reporting.

So, if reported crime is already 41% higher than average - we can only imagine what the true figure is.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#914

Post by qup »

cemerick wrote: post #71
qup wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to SF and therefore don't have an opinion. How is one story really highlighting something? This is just one anecdote where it wasn't what people expected, it's not proof they're wrong. (I have no idea if they are, it's just a bad argument)

The story contradicts what so many here took as a given, that Lee was a victim of stochastic violence in SF. The highlighting is in revealing that so many were wrong in applying their biases to the original news, and then using that to leverage into e.g. condemnations of the city in general.

Sure. From my point of view, that means you can say "can't use Bob Lee as evidence of the rampant violence".

It doesn't mean you can say "You're wrong, there isn't rampant violence because this incident had a back-story"

Again, I haven't visited.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#915

Post by whatshisface »

woodruffw wrote: post #894

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

Look, this might be an unnecessary comment but...

This suspect is innocent until proven guilty and we will all still be here when the trial finishes. There is no reason to rush out to come up with a viewpoint that might be shown false with later revelations. If we've learned something from the people who jumped straight to total confidence that it was caused by homelessness, then let's apply it.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#916

Post by operatingthetan »

Alupis wrote: post #895
woodruffw wrote: post #894

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

[flagged]

>One counter-example out of thousands does not prove SF is a safe or clean place.

Strawman. I don't think that was an invitation to launch into the same rant from the last thread either.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#917

Post by woodruffw »

whatshisface wrote: post #915
woodruffw wrote: post #894

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

Look, this might be an unnecessary comment but... This suspect is innocent until proven guilty and we will all still be here when the trial finishes. There is no reason to rush out to come up with a viewpoint that might be shown false with later revelations. If we've learned something from the people who jumped straight to total confidence that it was caused by homelessness, then let's apply it.

The suspect is indeed innocent until proven guilty. I haven't advanced any claim that this particular suspect is the perpetrator; only that violent crimes are overwhelmingly committed by people known to their victims.

I hope that we can extend the same fundamental legal skepticism to society's most needy.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#918

Post by kevviiinn »

hbarka wrote: post #907
woodruffw wrote: post #894

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

This doesn't mean San Francisco is exonerated from being a crime-laden city. It's an inconvenient truth but car break-ins, looting of retail shops, open air drug markets, unhygienic streets, and rampant homelessness are worse than ever.

Ah yes, being homeless. One of the greatest crimes

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#919

Post by Alupis »

woodruffw wrote: post #917
whatshisface wrote: post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, this might be an unnecessary comment but... This suspect is innocent until proven guilty and we will all still be here when the trial finishes. There is no reason to rush out to come up with a viewpoint that might be shown false with later revelations. If we've learned something from the people who jumped straight to total confidence that it was caused by homelessness, then let's apply it.

The suspect is indeed innocent until proven guilty. I haven't advanced any claim that this particular suspect is the perpetrator; only that violent crimes are overwhelmingly committed by people known to their victims. I hope that we can extend the same fundamental legal skepticism to society's most needy.

> violent crimes are overwhelmingly committed by people known to their victims.

Homicide. Homicide is overwhelmingly committed by people known to their victims.

Violent Crime includes armed robbery, aggravated assault, forcible rape and murder. Not all of these crimes share that statistic.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#920

Post by nubianwarrior »

jb3689 wrote: post #440

It’s pretty incredible to me that the whole community on the last thread was fixated on the fact that it must’ve been the homeless/drug addicts. What kind of place is it where you immediately dismiss premeditated murder, or even throw it up as 50-50?

There is a cancer of cynicism and hate in these parts. Always has been but now it feels that it's the victim and now it has the tools to grow. This was a failed attempt at growth. It will try again until it is eradicated.
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