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Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

forbes.com

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Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#911

Post by Dylan16807 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #859
Dylan16807 wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact spending short periods in lots of different countries makes it a whole lot harder to learn to drive. Huh?

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old). Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa. So if you’re a young adult…

Okay, so "short periods" that add up to significantly more than half the time? Since even if you spend every other week or every other month in another country that leaves you plenty of learning time if you want to.

That scenario adds up, it just wasn't what I thought when I saw "short periods".

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#912

Post by nicehill »

avianlyric wrote: post #445
nicehill wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe hard packed snow is a strategy for only flat cities Seattle infamously tried the hard packed snow strategy about a decade ago, and it turned it into a dangerous (hilly) ice rink

There's a difference between riding on hard pack with a bike, and driving a car over it. I have no idea why you think an experiment with hard-pack snow on automotive roads is in anyway indicative of what works on cycle lanes.

Hard pack on a hill doesn't seem to make sense for bicycles either

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#913

Post by gambiting »

hnlmorg wrote: post #859
Dylan16807 wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact spending short periods in lots of different countries makes it a whole lot harder to learn to drive. Huh?

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old). Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa. So if you’re a young adult…

The what now? Please name a single country where you can't just enter and drive with an international driving permit straight away, I can't think of one off the top of my head. If you are going to live in a different country that's a whole different kettle of fish, but typically you can use your international permit for anywhere between 6 months - 3 years depending on the country. And the problem doesn't exist at all anywhere in the EU/EEA/UK, the licences can be used in any country without any time limit, or can be exchanged for the local equivalent without re-taking the exam.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#914

Post by hnlmorg »

pjmlp wrote: post #893
adrianN wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the suburbs of a medium sized city. Everything was easily accessible by bike, but of course many people still preferred the convenience of a car. It took about 25 minutes from my apartment to the city center. My wife grew up in the suburbs of an even smaller city. It took about 10 minutes to reach that city center by bike, but almost everybody drove because the road connecting the suburb to the city center…

Two anecdotes, plenty of European cities aren't as fortunate, specially in southern countries. Many cities are only city in name, and in practice more towns aspiring to be cities, specially in southern and eastern Europe. Here is one anecdote, Portalegre might be a nice city, as Northen Alentejo capital in Portugal, yet those 20 km on average from the neighbouring villages aren't that nice to do on bycicle specially…

I’ve cited plenty more cities. And could cite more still.

Besides, your statement was an absolute so the GP only needed one of example to disprove you yet gave you two.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#915

Post by snozolli »

gambiting wrote: post #529
snozolli wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times have you hit someone while riding a bicycle? I never have. How much harm do you suppose it would do, leading to "massive legal trouble"? Incidentally, 45kmh is 28mph, which I was just barely able to maintain on level ground on my road bicycle when I was fit. The "speed pedelecs" laws seem a bit silly rather than simply enforcing speed limits and penalizing reckless behavior.

>>How many times have you hit someone while riding a bicycle? I never have. I suppose I should stop paying for car insurance then, since I never had an accident either. Or maybe more accurate example is that I shouldn't worry about the safety of my car, since I never actually hit anyone with it. >>How much harm do you suppose it would do, leading to "massive legal trouble"? There was a cyclist in london recently who…

I suppose I should stop paying for car insurance then, since I never had an accident either.

Ah, yes, because cars and bikes represent totally comparable risks to others.

Now you can go cite some more wildly improbable anecdotes, notable entirely because of how exceptional they are, as a response. I'll be over here looking at the 1.3 million people who die in car accidents around the world and not caring about e-bikes at all.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#916

Post by phoobahr »

_hcuq wrote: post #774
sharkweek wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In upfront transparency to avoid sounding like I have a superiority complex based on just how much I love my cargo bike, our family does still have a car. Okay that being said… our cargo bike has replaced 90% of our “last mile” driving here in the city. We take the kids to school on it, we do grocery runs, we take it to the park, out to dinner, just about anywhere we can. In the first two years we’ve put at least 2k…

Presumably you live in a place where it's safe to cycle. If so, I am envious.

If you're particularly envious you may want to consider asking how those who can't drive make do in your location. Life's about making choices and seeking different perspectives might help change and/or inform your priors.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#917

Post by hnlmorg »

quantumwannabe wrote: post #892
hnlmorg wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old). Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa. So if you’re a young adult…

What? Most countries support an International Driving Permit [1] which allows you to drive there on a tourist visa if you're licensed to drive in your home country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Driving_Permit

I know. I already addressed the issues with that in my post. In short, your suggestion only works if someone has already had a valid driving license before travelling. Which plenty of people who travel lots (and I don’t mean holidays but backpacking for months/years on end or constantly moving from one country to another for work, moving on whenever they get bored) don’t have licenses.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#918

Post by hnlmorg »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #911
hnlmorg wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old). Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa. So if you’re a young adult…

Okay, so "short periods" that add up to significantly more than half the time? Since even if you spend every other week or every other month in another country that leaves you plenty of learning time if you want to. That scenario adds up, it just wasn't what I thought when I saw "short periods".

“Travelling” in this context means people who spend months or years away from home. Or don’t even have a fixed place they call “home”. A bit like nomads, backpackers, etc.

Sure, some of them will drive. But I’ve also known plenty of people who cannot drive because they spend their time backpacking or who work a couple of years in one county then move to another.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#919

Post by hnlmorg »

gambiting wrote: post #913
hnlmorg wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old). Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa. So if you’re a young adult…

The what now? Please name a single country where you can't just enter and drive with an international driving permit straight away, I can't think of one off the top of my head. If you are going to live in a different country that's a whole different kettle of fish, but typically you can use your international permit for anywhere between 6 months - 3 years depending on the country. And the problem doesn't exist at all…

You’re solving the wrong problem. The problem we are discussing is the difficulty of learning to drive when you’re travelling. If you already have a driving license then this entire discussion is moot because you don’t need to learn to drive if you can already drive. Pretty obvious stuff I’d have thought but a few on here seem surprised by this fact. Go figure.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#920

Post by nec4b »

Macha wrote: post #789
nec4b wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitting a pedestrian when riding a bike at 25 km/h has life threatening consequences for the pedestrian. Pedestrians do die when hit by bikers. Especially elderly which have worse awareness around them and are more fragile.

Where do you think cyclists are going 25 km/h while interacting with pedestrians? If it's on a shared pathway they should be going more slowly, if someone fails to do that that's as much their failure as if they hit someone with a car. And if they're on a road/cycle lane and they fail to respect a ped crossing, that's again the same.

If everybody would do everything by the book we wouldn't have this discussion about drunken cyclist.
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