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Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

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Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#911

Post by drusepth »

bloopernova wrote: post #761
pg wrote: post #350

I'm not leaving Twitter. It seems more likely than not that Elon will reverse the ban on links to other social media sites. I just don't want to hang out there in the meantime. Plus given the way things are going, it seemed like a good time to learn about alternatives. I still think Elon is a smart guy. His work on cars and rockets speaks for itself. Nor do I think he's the villain a lot of people try to make him out…

How do you feel about his "anti-woke" behaviour? His banning of journalists? His tweets with nazi coded language like "88"? Would you return to a site where the owner uses his considerable power/money to promote fascism?

> His tweets with nazi coded language like "88"?

Do you have links to these tweets? I couldn't find any from a brief perusal of this recent tweets.

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#912

Post by space_fountain »

InsOp wrote: post #764
space_fountain wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think villains don't exist in the real world. There are no Voldemort with no discernible reason for doing bad things, but Elon has been doing a lot of bad things lately and is inching into the realm that seems worth calling a villain to me

can you elaborate on what bad or evil things he is doing?

Calling and implying random people pedophiles including a former executive, mass unbanning people, firing thousands based on very little, and pushing the rest to go "hardcore", releasing internal documents to conservative outlets so they can go on and tar everyone, and honestly just running his company into the ground which is bad because people rely on him to keep twitter as a going concern

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#913

Post by fragmede »

drusepth wrote: post #911
bloopernova wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about his "anti-woke" behaviour? His banning of journalists? His tweets with nazi coded language like "88"? Would you return to a site where the owner uses his considerable power/money to promote fascism?

> His tweets with nazi coded language like "88"? Do you have links to these tweets? I couldn't find any from a brief perusal of this recent tweets.

> I wonder what Earth will be like 88 million years from now

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1596439328338890752

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#914

Post by patrec »

jacquesm wrote: post #603
dragonwriter wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reputation is not like a piece of software that you fix and then re-run as though it never broke in the first place In a way it is, but it differs from software in that fixing it involves more than reverting the action by which you broke it.

Any good examples? 'Reputation is like a crystal vase, you can drop it, and glue it back together again but it will never again be the same vase that it was before you dropped it'.

Both Bill Gates (IT robber baron) and Mike Tyson (wife beater, ear biter and convicted rapist) seem to enjoy pretty good reputations these days.

Musk's reputational problem is chiefly due to looking quite incompetent at the moment, not his moral failings.

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#915

Post by sandofsky »

concordDance wrote: post #899
sandofsky wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my memory serves, Graham would sometimes link to his essay when people criticized Musk. It’s hard for me to check at the moment, as Graham’s Twitter account has been suspended.

As I said, 95% of criticism might by illegitimate while the 5% isn't. Paul could have been linking for the X% of Musk hate that's ill founded based on his personal knowledge of the guy.

In the article, he makes no breakdown like you describe. He appears to have created a straw man which he alludes to whenever once of his associates receive criticism.

In light of Musk fulfilling the predictions of his worst “haters,” maybe this merits clarifying the essay.

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#916

Post by dang »

breck wrote: post #807
dang wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No personal attacks, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You are right. Yet, why is his not a personal attack on Elon?

It wasn't a neutral statement but I don't think I'd call it a personal attack. It's a claim about reputation.

There's also a significant difference between attacking a fellow user in a flamewar style comment vs. talking about a powerful public figure; we don't allow the worst kinds of personal attack in the latter case either*, but the bar is necessarily higher.

* https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#917

Post by vkou »

CryptoBanker wrote: post #790
vkou wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not short-sighted, Twitter is simply championing free speech. Free speech is defined as the intersection between anything-thats-legal and anything-that-doesn't-upset-its-owner.

Are you deliberately trolling?

No, I'm just connecting the data points between what Musk says, and what he does. Mostly between what he does, actually.

If you think that this is a farce, that's because we are living in one. I suppose it is possible that he is trolling us with his moderation policies...

It's true that this generates relatively low-quality commentary, but it's not clear to me how a discussion of the behaviour of a man who says one thing, and does another can do otherwise.

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#918

Post by _cenw »

oska wrote: post #898
_cenw wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX has talented people working there despite Elon, not because of him. They supposedly have an entire handbook on "managing Elon" for deflecting his weird requests and framing things in a way that doesn't provoke his ire. They put up with it because they only have so many opportunities to work on space. Twitter has people dependent on their H-1B and very few true believers that are unfit to serve in their role. E…

Quoted post unavailable.

Remind me, who kept posting misinformation about a children's hospital just before it got bomb threats?

And who kept doing it knowing that fact, causing repeats of such bomb threats?

And who posted relentlessly about the drag show in Moore County for more than a month before a bunch of substations got shot up, supposedly to shut them down?

You do the math.

Re: Paul Graham is leaving Twitter for now

#919

Post by tobtoh »

cgh wrote: post #691
asim wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately for those who idolised Elon, their world view is beginning to crumble. His actions are not justifiable. The way he treats people, the way he rules his companies, the way he governs his new "free speech" platform. The man is a tyrant. He's idolised for the things he's achieved but if he had not achieved them would he be given the same benefit of the doubt? Hypocrisy. The way people treat this man versus…

Imagine if it were Tim Cook who called Vern Unsworth, the British diver who helped rescue the trapped Thai kids in the flooded cave, a "pedo guy". Or, if you want to picture an amazing shitstorm, Barack Obama.

That whole Thai situation was when my opinion of Elon cratered. The pedo insult and subsequent lawsuits really gave insight into Elon's (lack of) character - the fact he would use that as an insult, the person he insulted, and the fact he wouldn't apologise and let it get to the stage of a lawsuit.

Whilst the 'submarine solution' he proposed shattered my belief that he was some engineering genius. It was plainly obvious to even a non-technical person that a cave system was not going to be suitable for a submarine - yet here was the 'genius' designing a solution without even checking the requirements. It was so fundamentally stupid that it's made me really believe that Tesla/SpaceX are a (technical) success in spite of Elon, not because.

Maybe the whole submarine thing was purely a marketing/publicity plot ... but trying to gain PR points off a live tragedy? Well that goes back to my point about his character.

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