Live data from Hacker News

EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

911–915 of 915 posts

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#911
post #137

I just love how the grandstanding of European green-progressives of the past, when they positioned themselves as champions of privacy, completely flipped once they came to power. "Name one practical reason to pay amounts higher than 1.000€ in cash." – unknown progressive

They want privacy for regular people, accountability for the rich and powerful.

This is absolutely laughable. The very opposite is the case:

Wealthy, well connected people, politicians and businesses already can and do transfer and launder money on industrial scales, with only minimal worry about rules like this one, which doesn't even really affect their ability to launder or evade. They can instead use armies of lawyers, accountants, political connections for the high levels at which their laundering and tax evading happens. And if those fail, they can then simply pay whatever fines as a cost of doing business while minimizing convictions of real, actual people behind a business structure.

This cash prohibition rule on the other hand turns many average people across the EU, possibly millions of them in total into potential lawbreakers just because any number of normally, morally non-criminal random circumstances or worries about digital finances being frozen make them want to have and use cash for modestly large transactions.

All of this aside from the flawed reasoning that the state has an innate right to completely strip away financial privacy for the sake of taxes or KYC. It should not have such a right. Tax collection and financial auditing are contextual and imperfect necessities in the context of imperfect government and society, they should not be treated as divine rights of power, to ever be increased without recourse against them.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#912
post #883
post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how any of that is relevant. They're not targeting the majority of economic activity, nor even the majority of cash transactions. They're only targeting cash transactions so unusually large that it's hard to imagine a legitimate purpose for them. Small cash transactions are unaffected.

> They're only targeting cash transactions so unusually large that it's hard to imagine a legitimate purpose for them. I am saying that millions of cash transactions of this size take place every year and that the majority of them are legitimate. Whether or not you can think of reasons why people would use cash in that amount is sort of irrelevant.

Can you give me an example of a common, legitimate $10,000+ cash transaction? Elsewhere I gave the example of my mom transporting transporting a ton of money in cash for the initial down payment of a house, but that was 40 years ago. Nobody does that anymore for good reason; there are far easier, safer and more practical ways to handle that kind of transaction.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#913
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want privacy for regular people, accountability for the rich and powerful.

This is absolutely laughable. The very opposite is the case: Wealthy, well connected people, politicians and businesses already can and do transfer and launder money on industrial scales, with only minimal worry about rules like this one, which doesn't even really affect their ability to launder or evade. They can instead use armies of lawyers, accountants, political connections for the high levels at which their lau…

> modestly large transactions.

This is for transactions over 10k. That's not "moderately large". The only time most people make transactions that size is for buying a house, car or life insurance. Those are not transactions that normal people do in cash, and all of them already require significant paperwork anyway.

> All of this aside from the flawed reasoning that the state has an innate right to completely strip away financial privacy for the sake of taxes or KYC. It should not have such a right. Tax collection and financial auditing are contextual and imperfect necessities in the context of imperfect government and society, they should not be treated as divine rights of power, to ever be increased without recourse against them.

Is that a fancy way of saying tax evasion should be legal? Any transaction of that size represents a significant piece of income for someone.

I strongly support the right to privacy, but I'm not naive about the need to fight money laundering or collect taxes.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#914
They do this while looking the other way when "art" valued in the dozens of millions moves from one hand to another even though no opposite movement of money has happened.

This sort of rule, as usual, affects only small players and normal people. If you're rich and well connected, you're allowed to wash money.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#915
post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely laughable. The very opposite is the case: Wealthy, well connected people, politicians and businesses already can and do transfer and launder money on industrial scales, with only minimal worry about rules like this one, which doesn't even really affect their ability to launder or evade. They can instead use armies of lawyers, accountants, political connections for the high levels at which their lau…

> modestly large transactions. This is for transactions over 10k. That's not "moderately large". The only time most people make transactions that size is for buying a house, car or life insurance. Those are not transactions that normal people do in cash, and all of them already require significant paperwork anyway. > All of this aside from the flawed reasoning that the state has an innate right to completely strip aw…

you're presupposing that your experience of cash transactions is and should be everyone's experience of cash transactions. Yes, many normal people sometimes conduct business with larger amounts of cash over 10k euros, which by the way isn't all that much anymore. And even if this is unusual, banning the unusual is a terrible way to run laws. If you defend financial privacy, I can't see how you could defend such an idiotic and intrusive law.

>Is that a fancy way of saying tax evasion should be legal? Any transaction of that size represents a significant piece of income for someone.

No, it's a way of defending the basic idea that the state's right to squeeze every penny and justify any law in the name of being able to do so shouldn't be automatically unquestioned. You saying that this cash amount represents a significant piece of income for someone takes as given that the cash in question is being laundered or used for evasion. Do you really believe that this should be a default assumption, or that it's right for the government to assume such guilt just because money is present in someone's daily business? Imagine if all legal issues were handled in such a disgusting way. For some reason, too many people put on emotional blinders and with tax law, ignore how barbarically stupid that is if any respect for presumptions of innocence exists.

You are certainly naive about how reliable government is about being able to pry into everything financial, or how absolute should be its right to squeeze for any amount of money.

Post reply on HN