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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#911

Post by nickm12 »

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

There are plenty of decent schools and also plenty of decent jobs. However, my anecdotal experience from applying a kid to college last year is that the most selective schools are taking diversity initiatives too far. I know a kid who was a Regeneron scholar who was rejected from many of the most selective schools.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#913

Post by slt2021 »

runako wrote: post #908
slt2021 wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Microsoft salaries are on the lower end compared to other FAANGs, this is well known fact. 2. Higher paying firms like goog fb are able to sweep the labor market and get the most of folks from tiny population of well qualified minority candidates. Making pipeline issues worse for everybody else. 3. At this point if you are minority and is qualified - you have no problem getting top tier job and top tier pay relati…

Quick thoughts: 1) You are correct, but this does not speak to the need for Microsoft to have sub-optimal processes in any aspect of its business. Separately, all of the big tech companies including Microsoft pay significantly more than typical employers in places where there are no big tech offices (this is most of the country). 2) This is just incorrect. Those firms cannot sweep the labor market because their US cu…

1. process is not suboptimal, market conditions are different. Why would any well qualified minority go to msf for 120k in Atlanta if they can get 240 in Mountain view + relocation bonus? Plus most of qualified minority candidates are hired from top tier engineering programs are across the country. Local market is irrelevant at this point

2. You are wrong again, facetime is irrelevant, because of relocation. Very few will stay at MSFT in Atlanta for 100k if they can double pay + relo to CA/Seattle. Google does have office in atlanta, btw.

Your concept of supposedly "untapped talent in Minneapolis" is wrong, because in Minneapolis metro is about 3.5M people and Target can tap from talent pool of 3.5M, while places like Bay Area can tap from global talent pool (7B people) who self-selects and specifically migrates to places like Bay Area/NY/Seattle. This is three orders of magnitude difference in talent quantity and quality.

There is a reason Walmart established office in Bay Area, and doesn't want to limit itself to the great talent pool of Fayetville AR

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#914

Post by dang »

tomp wrote: post #365
rrradical wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discrimination in selecting who to interview is absolutely a form of discrimination. Exactly. That's what the parent comment is saying. But they are thinking about the entire funnel, not just the end of it. By the time a slate of candidates reaches a company's hiring process, there has already been an immense selection bias against minority candidates. Two people growing up in different places (not different cities…

This is a nice way to excuse your racism. A lot of people use this perverted logic. But at the end of the day, it's still evil racism. Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. So if you apply a racist filter on top of the (implicit) wealth filter, you're just being racist against poor Asian & white people.

Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#915

Post by dang »

moistly wrote: post #893
philwelch wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

[flagged]

You broke the site guidelines extremely, horribly, and repeatedly in this thread. If you do that again we will ban you. We've had to ask you this more than once before.

You can't vandalize HN like this, no matter how right you are or feel you are. And you've done it elsewhere recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33148354. That's not ok.

I actually banned you just now, but decided to undo it because the other user was also way over the line. If you don't want to be banned on HN, please respect the rules from now on.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#916

Post by dang »

philwelch wrote: post #905
moistly wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Quoted post unavailable.

Your comments in this thread have broken the site guidelines shamefully. We ban accounts that post like this.

I would have banned the two of you, but I don't want to ban you without a warning and I'm not going to let you off the hook while banning the other person, so I'm going to let you both off the hook. However, please don't ever vandalize HN like this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#917

Post by chudmeister »

topaz0 wrote: post #383
yucky wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They mention an increase of from 3% to 5% of membership of senior black leaders. So now instead of those 3% being seen as having earned their position, all 5% will be seen as having been given an unfair advantage. So now it's not only unfair to the people excluded based on skin color but it's unfair to those who benefitted strictly because of the perception they now have to deal with as having not really earned thei…

> all 5% will be seen as having been given an unfair advantage. Only by the kinds of people who tend to assume the worst about Black people.

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#918

Post by chudmeister »

systemvoltage wrote: post #54
Decker87 wrote: post #23

At this moment in time I think companies can gain a major hiring advantage by simply hiring the best regardless of race/gender. So many large companies are shooting themselves in the foot distorting incentives and saying "no" to people who are the wrong color/gender.

I think we're going to see a rise of new companies formed, perhaps not from Silicon Valley, that will reject the whole D&I concept and move forward with complete blindness to race, culture, or gender. They will excel, outperform and form a new age of englightenment. I don't think this will happen because I want it to, it will happen because incentives and fundamentals of operations of a company – i.e., just focus on…

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#919

Post by chudmeister »

winternett wrote: post #154
systemvoltage wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're going to see a rise of new companies formed, perhaps not from Silicon Valley, that will reject the whole D&I concept and move forward with complete blindness to race, culture, or gender. They will excel, outperform and form a new age of englightenment. I don't think this will happen because I want it to, it will happen because incentives and fundamentals of operations of a company – i.e., just focus on…

What kind of statement is this? D&I is supposed to be comparatively balanced to the society is serves. Minorities are essential within companies to prevent bias in their marketing and product development that can be fatal to business success. D&I is not a terrible paradigm that needs to be dismantled just because some companies take it to far, it's no different than accounting or other functional considerations withi…

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#920

Post by chudmeister »

tablespoon wrote: post #112
inglor_cz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also possible that those companies will be suffocated by the fact that banks won't extend credit to them (ESG) or angry Twitter will pressure potential customers not to do business with them.

> It is also possible that those companies will be suffocated by the fact that banks won't extend credit to them (ESG) or angry Twitter will pressure potential customers not to do business with them. I think that would only be an issue if they made a big deal in public about rejecting DEI. Such a statement might also attract a bunch of obnoxious, oppositely-polarized people you don't want either. Probably the best st…

No post body was provided.
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