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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#911

Post by ephimetheus »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #884
Jtsummers wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide. Lightning was good when it came out (compared to the various micro-USB options), but it's not held up. Even Apple knows this and they've moved away from it on their iPads.

Lightning was a design put forth by a company that wasn't Apple during the USB IF's design stage of USB-C. It was rejected because the pins were on the outside, not the inside, and would allow easy damage of both the cable and the connector. It was rejected purely on completely sane technical and mechanical reasons. Apple shipped it anyways, and all Lightning cables have failed or will fail for exactly the reasons it…

I’ve never had a single lightning cable fail ever since they switched to them.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#912

Post by kelnos »

dmitriid wrote: post #900
kelnos wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above... Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated. > Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless c…

> Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated. You mean: in 20 years Apple has had only two connectors, and they worked and work extremely well. Meanwhile the industry "that moved on" invented 6 different incompatible connectors, didn't even specify a charging s…

That's a bit of an unfair argument, since you're mixing various things together that are not connectors (USB 4... etc.).

Bottom line is that the industry has actually been converging on USB-C for some time now. And again, I think it's unfair to compare an industry with tens (hundreds?) of players having trouble agreeing on something, when we're talking about Apple -- a single entity -- obstinately refusing to drop their obsolete, outdated "uniqueness" in this case.

I get why Apple chose to do Lighting instead of microUSB back in 2012 (I have lost track of the high number of microUSB connectors I have broken), but the funny thing is that Lightning didn't really offer any technical benefits beyond the more sturdy form factor at the time. Lighting was USB2 (and more or less still is), and microUSB carried USB2 signals just fine. They went their own way there for pretty dubious reasons. Well, ok, one obvious reason: they wanted to restrict who could build an iPhone/iPad accessory, because using the Lightning connector required licensing it from Apple.

So basically Lightning exists for one physical sturdiness reason (which, alone, probably would not be justification to do something new), and one anti-competitive reason.

Apple should have just stuck with microUSB, and then switched to USB-C once that made sense. But no, that would have reduced their iron grip on what people are allowed to do with their phones.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#913

Post by valzam »

dmitriid wrote: post #900
kelnos wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above... Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated. > Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless c…

> Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated. You mean: in 20 years Apple has had only two connectors, and they worked and work extremely well. Meanwhile the industry "that moved on" invented 6 different incompatible connectors, didn't even specify a charging s…

All the USB data specs are irrelevant for this legislation. All it says is: Use a USB-C connector and support the USB PD charging standard. In fact many cheaper android phones use USB2 since the port is purely for charging.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#914

Post by Jtsummers »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #884
Jtsummers wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide. Lightning was good when it came out (compared to the various micro-USB options), but it's not held up. Even Apple knows this and they've moved away from it on their iPads.

Lightning was a design put forth by a company that wasn't Apple during the USB IF's design stage of USB-C. It was rejected because the pins were on the outside, not the inside, and would allow easy damage of both the cable and the connector. It was rejected purely on completely sane technical and mechanical reasons. Apple shipped it anyways, and all Lightning cables have failed or will fail for exactly the reasons it…

> Lightning was a design put forth by a company that wasn't Apple during the USB IF's design stage of USB-C.

Do you have some references for this? I had never heard of Lightning having been developed anywhere but at Apple and specifically for their iDevice line and a check on Wikipedia's Lightning connector page has no references to anything that can substantiate this claim. Either a great example of historical erasure, or you're making this up.

TL;DR: Source?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#917

Post by smoldesu »

misnome wrote: post #334
manuelabeledo wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is part of the USB-IF. They also have pushed USB standards to consumers since the iMac. Hell, Apple participates of every single industrial forum they can benefit from. Apple has moved on to USB-C for almost every other product they have. They know Lightning is old and insufficient, even for their iPad Air. The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the rev…

> The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the revenue from those, and their certifications, is not something they are willing to dismiss. Technically speaking, if you want something as simple as a cable, you have to go through Apple and their MFI program. The other way of viewing this is that by not switching (yet) they haven't created instant e-waste out of e…

> Seriously, you don't need to invent a conspiracy for every single move Apple makes.

On the contrary, over-simplifying the motivations of a multi-trillion dollar corporation often leaves you as the fool.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#918

Post by dzikimarian »

adventured wrote: post #882

HN: a corporation with a monopoly dictating standards is bad Also HN: government bureaucrats dictating standards in a monopolistic manner is good Also HN: choice good Also HN: the government must protect us from choice Yeah, sure. This is just psychotic nanny state behavior. Millions of Europeans cried out in unison: protect me from myself, I can't make decisions on my own, I'm not well enough informed to know what t…

> HN: a corporation with a monopoly dictating standards is bad

Typically on HN it's "Corporation enforcing closed standards is bad. Unless it's Apple. They for sure do this for innovation".

I've seen people saying that iMessage is closed for "security", where there are literally emails from Apple execs denying that. Now tons of people state that USB 2.0 molded into different plastic was vastly superior to USB-C.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#919

Post by valzam »

baq wrote: post #901
jhoechtl wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity: You are from the US, own lots of Aple appliances and hold APPL stock? Which one of my bets is wrong?

If only Apple appliances all used lighting!

It's hilarious, if you have an iphone, an apple watch and an ipad you need 3! different cables. You can't even get around 2 of them with wireless because the apple watch doesn't support qi charging, so you need 2 different pads for iphone and watch. I will never understand how apple let it come to this...

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#920

Post by barsonme »

csmpltn wrote: post #840
barsonme wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even when it's clearly detrimental to the user's experience This is entirely subjective. Personally, I’ve never been bothered by the different port type. I’ve also never really known it to be a problem for friends and family. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t prefer USB-C for the iPhone. Just that for me it’s not been “clearly detrimental.”

> "This is entirely subjective." What's positive about having to buy different cables, chargers and converters every year for your phones, cameras, laptops and whatnot? Maybe you're just used to it, but if you truly think about what it means and the implications of doing this at-scale, I seriously doubt there's any benefit to it.

I haven’t ever bought a lightening cable. Every device that uses one (iPhone, Magic Mouse, whatever) has come with one. And lightening cables don’t require unique chargers or converters.

I don’t think it’s some great positive, but I also don’t think it is “clearly detrimental” to the user experience, either.

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