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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#911

Post by digislave »

rgifford wrote: post #690

I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They'd get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled "How to Work Hard." None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates).…

Your story doesn't actually demonstrate that you have to know Warren Buffet as a child and attend an expensive school to become successful.

I don't think anybody here claims that working hard automatically makes you successful, either, just that it is difficult to become successful without it.

Also your movers could probably afford to work less if they dropped their drug habits.

Re: How to Work Hard

#912

Post by digislave »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #725
rgifford wrote: post #690

I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They'd get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled "How to Work Hard." None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates).…

> What if most of serious wealth and success is decided at birth? There is no 'what if'. It's just a fact. You can pretty accurately predict what a child will be able to attain in life by looking at their zip code.

PG talks about that in other essays, on how you should probably move to the right location. He compares Milano to Florence - it is unlikely people in Milano were less intelligent, but all the famous painters emerged in Florence.

Nevertheless I think your claim about the zip codes is too broad. Most people will have average lives. I suspect even in Silicon Valley only a small fraction of kids grow up to be successful entrepreneurs.

Re: How to Work Hard

#913

Post by digislave »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #856
emadabdulrahim wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not naive to not see that life is inherently unequal, I completely disagree with you. I know plenty people, including myself, who not only had the wrong zip code, they didn't even have a zip code. Somehow they made it. You can get lucky after you're born. And if you work hard, you can increase your luck odds. Also, why zip code is the axiom here? I'd say having good parents is more significant than being bo…

Nobody's to say. For some reason some people think that statistics dictate reality when obviously they just take an average. The zip code thingy is silly, but on average more expensive zip codes produce children with higher incomes.

Yeah because their parents are better educated and pass on their values to their kids. So what?

I am frankly tired of this modern idea that is is somehow unfair if parents pass on their advantages to their kids. That is what nature has always been about. It even starts before people have kids - they seek out partners that maximize the potential for their kids. So if a woman chooses an intelligent (or even just rich) man as a father for her kids, it is somehow unfair because it gives the kids an advantage. Even trying to become attractive (for example to become rich) to make you a good choice for parent is somehow unfair? It should be obvious that all that is some Marxist bullshit, where individuals are not allowed to operate for their personal advantage anymore, and their bodies are being utilized (women are not allowed to choose attractive partners anymore, or have children for their own enjoyment. Everybody has to be dedicated to the benefit of society or "fairness").

Stephen Curry's father was a professional basketball player, and now Curry is one of the best Basketball players. Is that unfair? What would have been fair, to disallow his father to play basketball with his son, and instead mandate he gives free basketball lessons to poor kids?

Maybe it is unfair that Curry's father didn't push for him to become a lawyer or a doctor, "forcing" him into a career as a basketball player. Well his dad knew about the world of basketball, so that is where he was able to help his son. Why shouldn't he do that? I personally will see to it that my kids learn to code, because that is where I am able to help. I don't feel bad about it at all. In fact I wish there were other things I were able to help with, but there are not. Still, they can go out into the world and seek other teachers. Especially with the internet, a lot of things are free to learn. There even is a Masterclass by Stephen Curry about learning to play Basketball.

Re: How to Work Hard

#914

Post by michaelgrafl »

pdimitar wrote: post #595
WalterSear wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me. Though I didn't just learn this in my upbringing - I feel like my entire working life has been one of false promises and dehumanization, that has left me unable to enjoy anything. I'm 47 now, have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job. I used to blame social media and hacker news, but I now recognize that too much delayed gratification and overwork have had a much…

At 41 y/o I am going mostly through the same. Without my wife I would have become a completely numb robot. But even if you don't have a good partner -- or friends, or your older family -- to turn to, I'd recommend the following: Engage in interviews but be upfront: you're not looking to prove yourself, you are not interested in stocks / futures / options / whatever, you're not scared of tough work but you're also loo…

Great comment, but I wouldn't throw out strength training that quickly.

Some people are more motivated to do strength exercises than cardio, for whatever reason. And there are types of strength training that get your heart rate up as well. I think the most important thing is to do not overdo it, or you'll just end up with one more thing that puts stress on your system.

The biggest benefit of cardio (in my opinion) is that there are many things that you can do outside. Not quite as simple with weight lifting for example, although possible.

Re: How to Work Hard

#915

Post by pdimitar »

michaelgrafl wrote: post #914
pdimitar wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 41 y/o I am going mostly through the same. Without my wife I would have become a completely numb robot. But even if you don't have a good partner -- or friends, or your older family -- to turn to, I'd recommend the following: Engage in interviews but be upfront: you're not looking to prove yourself, you are not interested in stocks / futures / options / whatever, you're not scared of tough work but you're also loo…

Great comment, but I wouldn't throw out strength training that quickly. Some people are more motivated to do strength exercises than cardio, for whatever reason. And there are types of strength training that get your heart rate up as well. I think the most important thing is to do not overdo it, or you'll just end up with one more thing that puts stress on your system. The biggest benefit of cardio (in my opinion) is…

Yeah, I don't disagree. F.ex. planks are definitely both strength training plus cardio and they are my favourite cardio so far. Riding a bike I love as well but I am in the middle of a city and just biking to a big park that I love is by itself an entire workout session, quite the long and risky one at that (since you have to navigate traffic and people -- no bike lanes).

My message mostly is: "get your heart pumping". The sedentary lifestyle reduces the speed of the metabolism which is one of the worst things that can happen to our bodies. Thus we have to actively work against this negative phenomena.

How does one go about it is indeed a personal journey.

Re: How to Work Hard

#916

Post by gubby »

rgifford wrote: post #842
jdross wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a mover and then I ran a moving company. I love movers and the culture of people who work with their hands. They tend to be much funnier than office workers. I realize yours is a common reality, but it's not been my experience. I always felt surrounded by underdogs, and our privilege mostly came from former underdogs choosing to bet on me. My parents are middle class New Yorkers. I went to a public high school,…

I appreciate you sharing your story! It's cool to hear about your success and I definitely understand that it's different than some might think of it. Congrats! I'll try not criticize your narrative or how you frame it and focus on sharing how I think about mine instead. I'm American, white, male, and got into an American college. I studied economics in school, got super stressed about my debt and income inequality.…

> Americans represent ~4% of the world's population. About 32% of Americans have graduated college. ALREADY I'm part of ~1% of the world's population [...].

FYI, other countries have effective college/university programmes too :)

Re: How to Work Hard

#917

Post by noduerme »

sergiomattei wrote: post #878
magicloop wrote: post #230

"I never took a day off in my twenties" (Bill Gates) quote is a misnomer because what Bill Gates considers a day-off is something where you are just lying around doing nothing, such as lying on the beach. A two week sojourn into a set of books that interested him were not considered "days off". He did such activities yearly. Bill Gates wasn't in the office working a 7 day schedule for his entire 20s. So that is not t…

As someone in their early twenties struggling with burnout post startup failure, these bullshit hustle tropes NEED to end (like the Bill Gates quote). I'm going to go against everything I was told and say: don't work hard in your early twenties, don't kill yourself over your work, don't fill your life with anxiety. Phrases like "I wish I was like you in my youth" or keeping young people rolling in their hamster wheel…

PG has turned a good profit selling the same pile of bullshit to two generations of CS grads and wannabe entrepeneurs now. I always thought the subtext was "and if you're really lucky, I can be your mentor/investor/boss and tell you why you're not trying hard enough." Nice to see he's still hustling too.

It always struck me as selfish, pompous and sanctimonious all at the same time.

He silently banned me from this site in 2012 for saying roughly the same thing - basically just made anything I posted invisible to 99% of others, so, yeah. Work harder, slaves!

[edit/addendum] The ban was never told to me. It was a hell ban apparently decided without consultation b/c he felt insulted. So for years I would post stuff and not know why almost no one saw it. Sneaky. As a sysadmin I wouldn't do that. Meanwhile, all his pseudo-self-help motivational speeches added up to one thing: Gaining authority and power over kids who were desperate to get a tiny bit of backing for a great idea. Money played a big role and everyone supposedly knew what they signed up for, but the personal power dynamic and control issues have always been near the surface. PG fronted as the ultimate "angel", but his interest in making money let alone helping anyone always appeared to take a backseat to having power to manipulate children's emotions and form a cult of personality to pander to him and sing his praises. All HN is essentially an outgrown version of his ego.

You have it right. Don't fall for this crap. It's just another iteration of the old company line, retreaded for the renter/gig generation - work hard til you retire, hope for a cash injection, then die early please. Nothing wrong with hard work, but you're right, it's better to spend your 20s living life. And question the source. [/edit /rant]

Re: How to Work Hard

#918

Post by mkl »

going_ham wrote: post #575
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

In fact there is a good video from Verassium [1]. One can't discount luck. There is no such thing as hard work. It's just the feeling of being in flow and whatever one does to make you re-live that flow, it's totally worth it. Instead of working on hard problems, it's best to prioritize on optimum problem and get the best out of your situation. With optimum problem, I mean the problems that allow you to maximize your…

*Veritasium. His tag line is "An element of truth", since "veritas" is Latin for truth and most element names end in "ium". I recommend the whole channel!

Re: How to Work Hard

#919

Post by fm2606 »

nonbirithm wrote: post #414
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

This is pretty much me as well. Some things you touch on are definitely me while others not so much but I can relate to them none the less.

My interests are so varied and I can get bored so easily on anyone of them that nothing seems to ever get done, if I start on them at all.

But then at work everyone is super pleased with what I do. Little do they know that some days are much harder than others to do good work.

Re: How to Work Hard

#920

Post by adamors »

luffapi wrote: post #630
going_ham wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact there is a good video from Verassium [1]. One can't discount luck. There is no such thing as hard work. It's just the feeling of being in flow and whatever one does to make you re-live that flow, it's totally worth it. Instead of working on hard problems, it's best to prioritize on optimum problem and get the best out of your situation. With optimum problem, I mean the problems that allow you to maximize your…

I’ve been feeling great dread lately with the direction our industry is going (has always been going tbh). This conversation gives me some sort of renewed hope though. Hundreds of people admitted hard work burned them out; seeing VCs ask to sacrifice your life for their bottom line. Realizing the role luck plays in success. Maybe covid pushed a significant number of people past their breaking point and now their eyes…

Check out Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb, it's a great little book that goes over just how much chance goes into one's success (and how oblivious most humans are to detecting this chance).
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