America has a drinking problem • Hacker News Board

Re: America has a drinking problem

#911

Post by frankzinger » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #701

snovv_crash wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited a castle in Switzerland (Chateau de Chillon) and they had a presentation on medieval eating and drinking habits. Apparently it was absolutely normal for everyone who could afford it to be drunk all of the time, from seamstresses to soldiers. I don't think our modern efficiency-conscious society can really understand what it was like back then.

Two key bits - how drunk and who could afford it. Safe drinking water was a pain in the ass. So mild alcoholic drinks was the norm. That that'd give you a little buzz at best. Very few people could have afforded to be truly shitfaced 24/7.

The article says that the bad water theory is unlikely because it's easier and cheaper to boil water than to make alcoholic beverages.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#912

Post by kbenson » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

tekknik wrote: post #904

kbenson wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Most places I know of in the U.S. if you're walking down the street and a cop sees you with a beer, they'll make an issue about it. The thing is, it's not always super obvious, and they don't bother to look too close usually if they don't have a reason to. I don't think this is the case in p…

> There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.

> People are oppressing others “right” to drink now?

I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it.

> Where’s your evidence for any of this?

I stated an observation based on my own experience, and why I believe it. The evidence for my belief is my own observations, which were explained.

> In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.

Parks and beaches will be policed differently, as public gathering places. I wasn't talking about those, even if the comment I was replying to was, I was referring to the more general topic of open containers in public in general, which is why I mentioned my street and a street a few blocks away.

It's obvious you have strong feelings on this topic (or another topic that you want this to stand in for), from both the way you approached the conversation and how you pigeonholed my statement into some other narrative that it wasn't intended to apply to. I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#913

Post by smellsfarts » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #839

silicon2401 wrote: post #45

Title is definitely true (america has a drinking problem), in a way. Excessive drinking is normalized, though not as common as problem drinkers think. Since college I always drank too much, but my real issue was that I assumed everybody drank as much as I did (maybe 20-30 drinks per week). Since I wasn't drinking as soon as I woke up or getting shakes without drinking, I thought I was fine. It wasn't until I realized…

I am in your same boat, I have always liked drinking very much, but I never dipped into any sort of serious "drinking problem" territory. For me the best way to reduce alcohol -- and stay healthy in general -- is to count calories. It's impossible to overdrink if you only have 200 calories at the end of your day and can only drink 1 beer. Nothing else has helped me cut back like that.

Calories counting to cut back on drinking for the win!

Re: America has a drinking problem

#914

Post by hammock » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

Sophistifunk wrote: post #423

People have the cause and effect backwards in my opinion. You know why "binge drinking" isn't a problem in Germany, except for when the Australians turn up for Oktoberfest? It's because you can just buy a beer on the side of the road with your currywurst, and drink it without being hassled. If you act up, you get arrested for acting up. Try openly having a few beers in the park in Australia or the US, you'll be run o…

What are your thoughts on gun control?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#915

Post by SilverRed » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #633

SilverRed wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public drinking laws are not because the government thinks the average person can't be trusted. It's because the homeless population has a large drinking problem and it often results in people getting assaulted on the street. These laws let the police do something about this before it results in harm.

> These laws let the police do something about this before it results in harm. Yeah, as if repression is the answer to homelessness. Homeless people drink or consume other drugs to relieve the various stress associated with being on the street (as evidenced by drinking and drug use amounts immediately going down in housing-first projects), or to self-medicate physical health problems (alcohol is an effective pain num…

>Actually helping people with housing and healthcare would be a way more efficient usage of public funds than wasting it on police that is using it for power trips against the powerless.

In Australia there is usually somewhat good access to housing/welfare. Certainly leaps and bounds ahead of the US. The problem is that your options are either a homeless shelter which prohibits drugs, or the welfare system which requires you to apply for jobs and attend checkups. To some people, neither of these options is desirable so they choose to live on the street.

The system in Australia isn't perfect but it is fair to say that it's almost impossible to be involuntarily homeless for an extended period.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#916

Post by SilverRed » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

tekknik wrote: post #908

tastyfreeze wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many laws like this that attempt to prevent an uncommon Bad Thing™ from happening at the expense of individual freedom. Some are created as a response to some event. Some are the result of some group pushing their moral values in law. I think we have seen that in most cases these types of laws that conflate correlation and causation are harmful and often abused to the detriment of specific groups.

Like gun control! Chicago, with its restrictive gun control, hasn’t fixed gun crime at all, just continued to restrict law abiding citizens rights.

This is a totally solved problem in Australia and NZ. It's just that in the US it would require either country wide action or very strict border patrol/checks.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#917

Post by kortilla » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #803

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, as someone who has 2-3 drinks per day, I've always been more surprised by the amount of people who basically don't drink at all. In that chart it's over half of Americans. Travel a bit, any you'll quickly discover that a couple drinks in the evening is basically normal in much of the world. I'm not arguing that it's healthy (it's not), but the median American really doesn't drink much - our Puritan values r…

Split a bottle of wine with the wife most days. That equates to 2-3 "standard" drinks per day I suppose. I find buying standard bottles of wine (versus boxes, 1.5L big bottles, etc.) exerts a certain amount of discipline. You're going to be averse to uncorking a new bottle after you just finished one :)

FYI: both you and your wife are classified as heavy drinkers by the NIH. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co...

I’m curious, what do you tell your doctor when he/she asks how much you drink?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#918

Post by alsetmusic » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

tekknik wrote: post #904

kbenson wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Most places I know of in the U.S. if you're walking down the street and a cop sees you with a beer, they'll make an issue about it. The thing is, it's not always super obvious, and they don't bother to look too close usually if they don't have a reason to. I don't think this is the case in p…

> There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.

>> There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities.

> Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.

I often trick myself into thinking that things that I have learned are well understood by society. But maybe not.

Example: I was stopped for non-working taillights when I was a late teen. I was let go with a warning. I was also a white kid driving an unsuspecting handmedown car in the “wealthier” part of town.

It’s easy to imagine a similar stop being leveraged to search a car and fish for drugs or other “criminal behavior” if I was a different race in a rough neighborhood with a lot of street crime.

Spoiler: I had a joint in the biblebelt and it was ~1999-2000. I could have been arrested for sure.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#919

Post by alsetmusic » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

tekknik wrote: post #905

Sophistifunk wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, I'm clearly not talking about camping. I'm talking about parks in the suburbs and cities. Secondly, "having a wine with my wife" is treated very differently from "having some beers with my fellow twenty-somethings," without needing to bring in the extra baggage that would be included if those twenty-somethings happen to be black. I'm sure I can drink a wine in the park with my wife too, now that I'm old. Doe…

> because Americans (generally) respect the freedoms of others much more than Australians do. Oh that’s rich. A certain political party’s primary goal seems to control and reduce freedoms. Also what evidence do you have that “brown” people are targeted more than others?

> Also what evidence do you have that “brown” people are targeted more than others?

I tried to engage with you upthread assuming positive intent. This comment seems like deliberate baiting and I don’t think it’s the least bit authentic. I don’t think there’s any question that non-white people in America are selectively policed more than white people except by those arguing in bad faith.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#920

Post by tekknik » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #916

tekknik wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like gun control! Chicago, with its restrictive gun control, hasn’t fixed gun crime at all, just continued to restrict law abiding citizens rights.

This is a totally solved problem in Australia and NZ. It's just that in the US it would require either country wide action or very strict border patrol/checks.

Yea totally solved in a completely isolated country with coast guard checking inbound ships.

As a counter point, guns are basically illegal in MX, yet they have no problem.

Then there’s 3D printers, apparently nerf guns can be converted as well.

So no, there’s still guns available in Australia and NZ, if people want them. You just don’t have the divisiveness and hatred there like we do in the US.