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Bitcoin Is Time

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Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#911

Post by madacol »

teawrecks wrote: post #905
Uptrenda wrote: post #821

I'm so sick of these profound-sounding blog posts that take 1 million words to say precisely jack shit. Yes, the key innovation around Bitcoin was to order events. You can call this 'time' if you want. This is literally the most obvious thing you can say about the system. It's so obvious in fact that it's in the introduction section to the Bitcoin whitepaper. Here is the entire blog post written much shorter and more…

After reading this article, it now seems like BTC is not equipped to to handle general relativity. If we ever become an interstellar species that seriously uses cryptocurrency, I'm not convinced that BTC will be sufficient. The only reason it works on earth is because the "ticks" of its clock are slower than the speed of light, but faster than we need transactions to be settled. If I use BTC to buy a product from a c…

There's tons of conversations about this. People have been speculating about making an alternate blockchain that settles in X days, or X weeks, that way it is "inner solar system"-friendly.

You can increase that time as much as you need

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#912

Post by neilwilson »

lolsal wrote: post #365
neilwilson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we live in a world of massive asset bubbles created by government fiscal policies" Do we? Or have we lived in a world where asset prices were suppressed due to artificial intervention by central banks. Interest rate setting is a market intervention. If left to its own devices the market rate would be driven down towards zero.

Being driven down to zero I think means people would lend at 0% interest - I would think thousands of years of anecdotal evidence would speak to the contrary - how would it ever get to zero? Who would lend like that? What would their motivation be?

"Being driven down to zero I think means people would lend at 0% interest "

Banks can't get rid of reserves at the central bank in aggregate. They can only get rid of them to other banks. So there is no need for the central bank to pay them.

You can't hold reserves so the bank can charge you for borrowing money.

Since there are more reserves than required, and no alternative source of interest, the inter bank rate would be driven to zero.

How do you think central bank rates bind? It gives banks an alternative source of interest other than lending them to each other.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#913

Post by neilwilson »

flurben wrote: post #259
neilwilson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we live in a world of massive asset bubbles created by government fiscal policies" Do we? Or have we lived in a world where asset prices were suppressed due to artificial intervention by central banks. Interest rate setting is a market intervention. If left to its own devices the market rate would be driven down towards zero.

> If left to its own devices the market rate would be driven down towards zero. How do you figure?

Banks can't get rid of reserves at the central bank in aggregate. They can only get rid of them to other banks. So there is no need for the central bank to pay them.

Since there are always more reserves than required, and no alternative source of interest, the inter bank rate would be driven to zero by supply and demand. That's then the 'market rate'.

You can't hold reserves so the bank can charge you extra for borrowing money. Only banks can get zero.

How do you think central bank rates bind? It gives banks an alternative source of interest other than lending them to each other.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#914

Post by ThomPete »

leereeves wrote: post #904
trident5000 wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video rendering is enormously wasteful. Nobody needs to see your TikTok video of you getting a grandma to slip on a banana peel. The list goes on. Having a global store of value where central banks cant print away peoples lifelong labor they sacrificed their time and health for sounds legitimate to me.

Bitcoin is far too volatile to be a good store of value. There are much more stable ways to protect savings against inflation.

And yet bitcoin have delivered just that since it's inception.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#915

Post by ThomPete »

hannasanarion wrote: post #544
fredfoobar wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

This is accidentally a good analogy. Because yes, cars have made the world materially worse, not because horses are better, but because dense urban development, public transit, walking, and cycling is better. Cars are enormously wasteful, much like bitcoin is, not only because it uses way more energy than is necessary for the task it is performing (~90% of the energy used by cars is spent to move the car, not the car…

Cars is a net positive to society. The positive externalities far outweigh the negative. Cars like all other machines free up times for humans to among other things invent the internet.

So unless you are claiming that cars are a net negative then it's not a good analogy.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#916

Post by Mikester »

leppr wrote: post #239
Mikester wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gold mining uses a lot of energy too (but I doubt Bitcoin will reduce the energy spent on gold mining, it will probably just add up Why do people keep making the comparison to gold mining? It's inappropriate. Gold mining is bad for the value of gold, because it increases the amount of gold in the world. Eventually, the gold coffers on Earth will deplete and there will be no more gold mining. Bitcoin mining is neces…

You're right, amended my comment. Doesn't change the argument though.

It doesn't change your argument indeed, it helps it.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#917

Post by danlugo92 »

hannasanarion wrote: post #555
danlugo92 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask Venezuelans and Iranians.

Have you? Venezuelans and Iranians aren't using crypto in any large numbers outside the dreams of speculators. Real people who actually need to do commerce prefer to transact in USD when the local currency falls short. You're never going to lose all your dollars because somebody guessed your email password.

I'm Venezuelan, for me, getting paid in BTC is orders of magnitude easier than any other alternative.

Paypal closes your account (after letting you deposit some amount which they will hold for 6 months before letting you wire it out to some other normal bank account) if you're Venezuelan.

Transferwise doesn't even serve Venezuelans and when they decided to stop serving us, a friend got his account blocked (he signed up before they banned Venezuelans) and unlike Paypal they just kept the money with no option to withdraw it.

Venezuelan bank accounts cannot receive international wire transfers.

Colombia/Brazil, the nearest countries (a round trip could cost you less than $200 pre-pandemic) don't let Venezuelans open up bank accounts unless they got a residence card.

This is in part due to USA sanctions, but the Venezuelan government is also at fault too (currency exchange controls, etc).

Ironically, USA is where it's easiest for a Venezuelan to open up a bank account. But pre-pandemic you had to spend more than $1000 (now it's more) in travel and accommodation to the USA to accomplish this. Not to mention you need a Visa.

It's also relatively easy and cheap (less than $1k) to remotely open up a business + bank account, again in USA, and do business through there which is what people are starting to do now (even though it's been possible since years ago if I'm not mistaken).

This is what I'm about to do in order to be able to do business (i'm a freelance programming contractor) with my clients easier, but it's still more expensive and harder than just set up a wallet + a localbitcoins account.

Yes, my aunt isn't going to buy bread with bitcoin, we all know that, but thanks to bitcoin her daughter can get paid as freelance Graphics Designer by her clients. Lots of remittance going on through bitcoin too.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#918

Post by danlugo92 »

zepto wrote: post #345
danlugo92 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask Venezuelans and Iranians.

It doesn’t seem like Bitcoin has actually solved any problems for them.

According to localbitcoins, $235 million was traded in 2018 alone in Venezuela, that's a lot for such an small economy.

It's solving /some/ problems, for /some/ people, maybe businessmen that create jobs or wealth even.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#919

Post by markogresak »

kenniskrag wrote: post #586
hannasanarion wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is accidentally a good analogy. Because yes, cars have made the world materially worse, not because horses are better, but because dense urban development, public transit, walking, and cycling is better. Cars are enormously wasteful, much like bitcoin is, not only because it uses way more energy than is necessary for the task it is performing (~90% of the energy used by cars is spent to move the car, not the car…

What happens if you have the same amount of horses like cars? Aren't they wasteful and need a lot of space and at night a heated parking spot? :)

Horses are well adapted to living in very cold weather. How do you think they survived in the wild? It’s only because we decided to close them inside that they need to have a cosy spot and blanket when they go out.

When they live outside, they get a thick coat, which is very good at isolation. Even if they get wet from rain, the water is repelled so it does not get to their skin. A good indication of this isolation is that snow will not immediately melt as it hits their fur. The only thing they need is enough to eat, as they still expend more energy to keep warm.

Source: my SO and I have 2 horses at home and they live in the open all the time. Their only shelter is a small roof as an extension to the barn, so there’s a dry place for the food.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#920

Post by imtringued »

gamblor956 wrote: post #472
tony101 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transfer funds across borders without dealing with multi-business-day bank delays or capital controls in countries like China. Accept donations or other online transactions without relying on Visa/Mastercard.

Violating Chinese currency controls generally results in spending one's life in a tiny prison cell. As for bank transfers, at my previous company we had to send hundreds of international payments each year and all of the transfers were finished within minutes of initiation. And Paypal and other companies have made it possible to donate to charities without a credit card for almost 2 decades.

> Violating Chinese currency controls generally results in spending one's life in a tiny prison cell.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be associated with a cryptocurrency that has a public ledger then if that's the type of punishment I am trying to avoid. You're just one exchange leak or hack away from being imprisoned.

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