Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#911

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #908

Annoyingly, the main reason Parler (and similar services) became so extreme was because the mainstream communities, organizations and platforms kept censoring conservative thought and thus driving them elsewhere. Then you end up with an echo chamber formed partially around the dislike of an outgroup... Radicalization inevitably follows. If people and institutions had just been more tolerant about allowing conservativ…

> Annoyingly, the main reason Parler (and similar services) became so extreme was because the mainstream communities, organizations and platforms kept censoring conservative thought and thus driving them elsewhere.

I would argue the opposite: the reason those sites became so extreme is that the mainstream sites restrict so little but the very extreme, that the population looking to escape the mainstream sites is very extreme.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#912

Post by king_panic » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

Free speech is a lot harder to defend when you disagree with what's said. It's relinquished by moralistic rationalizations and righteous condemnations... Be careful what you wish for.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#913

Post by wisty » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:31 PM UTC

I could try to explain how banning the right (starting with the extremists and now including the POTUS and presumably about 20% of the USA) would just push them into the online equivalent of desert training camps. But why bother? People will just say "That's their fault". This is not a smart way to discuss policy, but I fully expect that this is what it will degenerate into.

"Banning them drives them underground where they can be radicalised by the actual nazis!" That's their fault. End of story, we can all rest easy knowing that if the policy is counterproductive, we meant well (everyone thinks they mean well) and someone else is really to blame.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#914

Post by watwut » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:39 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #913

I could try to explain how banning the right (starting with the extremists and now including the POTUS and presumably about 20% of the USA) would just push them into the online equivalent of desert training camps. But why bother? People will just say "That's their fault". This is not a smart way to discuss policy, but I fully expect that this is what it will degenerate into. "Banning them drives them underground wher…

I dont see how the militias who brought bombs to capitol or planned execution of governor could be radicalized further.

I am also in uneasy when these are equated with general right wing. Yes, contemporary right wing is generally enabling them at best, but I still see it better if right wing wont become synonym with armed attackers groups.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#915

Post by boringg » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

Side stepping the free speech issue, they should have let Parler die on its own accord because it’s such a garbage app.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#916

Post by theelous3 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:44 PM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #871

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence It sounds very easy when you speak in the abstract. I could tell you a dozen examples where you can argue for both sides, and what your conclusion will be will depend on what the media says and whether or not you like the person they "persecute" and vilify. AOC said "Are you all ready to make a ruckus? Are you all ready to fight for our rights?".…

These examples are a joke though. No reasonable person thinks "the gloves are off" or "destroy them" coming from AOC is violent intent.

A reasonable person could reasonably interpret endlessly repeated claims that some liberal cabal is literally overthrowing the government and that America will actually die without immediate action, followed by violence that isn't condemned, mixed with blatant encouragement of violent action, with a long history of identical behavior, as violent.

Your examples might work in a vacuum where the reader has no knowledge of common english terms, any cultural context for the language, or any context about who the speaker is (though even then I think the obvious difference would be detected).

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#917

Post by Faark » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

mikaeluman wrote: post #809

I’ve said it before: I find this highly disturbing. Especially the sense in which it is coordinated. Amazon, Google and Apple acting together to shut down a platform that has been very clear about its stance on content moderation from the outset. Free speech is not just any value. Sooner or later you will find yourself on the side of an issue where your speech will be attacked. Then there is the always present double…

I really don't like the term "coordinated" here. Seems to imply intent, and maybe a powerful actor pulling the strings.

To me the situation feels a lot more like 4 friends sitting together...

friend1: hey, you still owe me money, pay me back!

friend2: huh yeah me as well!

friend3: me as well and planned to pay me back tomorrow. will you even have enough left? better dow it now!

Even with this just happening organically on the spur of the moment, triggered by his own behavior, it would be easy for friend4 to feel like there was an orchestrated setup...

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#918

Post by concordDance » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

oliv__ wrote: post #628

I'm having a real hard time understanding how all the comments in the thread are in favor of this. I mean, even if you disagree with the idea of Parler, how can one willingly support this kind of censorship? "First they came for the XYZ and I didn't care because I wasn't XYZ, then they came for the ..., and then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

They're pretty sure they'll always be on the right side of history.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#919

Post by JaimeThompson » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

I do find it interesting that some of those who think that medical professional should have a right to refuse lifesaving medial care to people for "moral reasons" are also up in arms about this happening.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#920

Post by perf1 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

So do you want to Forbid News reporting on Cop violonece too, because it can result in violent Protests? What about school shootings. Reporting on that can convince others to do it too.