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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#911
post #804
post #771

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Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

I've recently switched to using Whatsapp in an emulator, which is kinda similar. I even almost got a virtual camera working so I can share my desktop screen via whatsapp call (would be super useful for parent tech support). Laptop cameras should work fine though.

I'd be very interested if you could add some info regarding what software you used to do this.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#912
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

If they take donations in order to fund it, doesn't that give you the option of paying for the service directly?

In a way, except that there is no link between my usage and a payment, do you know what I mean? If I paid even $1 a month, I could sleep well knowing they're promising me X in exchange for Y. With a donation it just feels like I'm rewarding them for their high level promises/values. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#913

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Not just Europe + UK, LATAM is all WhatsApp.

Net neutrality not existing helps WhatsApp and other services here, one cell provider for example offers 1 year unlimited WhatsApp+Facebook including voice and video calls for a total (not monthly!) cost of 3USD on a prepaid chip. So you can't call, you can't write SMS, you can't use the internet but you can use WhatsApp for almost no cost. If you are on a budget this is a no brainer, for comparison - 5GB full internet access on the same chip is around 5$.

How are you going to break such a monopoly supported by providers? At this point it is something all providers do so if one starts offering it all other providers have a competitive advantage because everybody is already using WhatsApp. I am not sure if Facebook pays these providers, my guess is not - they are pushed into this by their competitors.

Net neutrality is very important to not let this happen. Similar deals exist for other popular services: Instagram, Youtube, TikTok, Spotify, Snapchat, Twitter, Netflix to name a few

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#915
We all saw this coming, and it’s most unfortunate that the network effects simply make us all share our data with them.

But doesn’t this violate GDPR? Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought asking the user to share data or leave service was illegal under it.

Also the same under iOS 14, again I have almost zero knowledge regarding the app store policies but I thought it had the same condition that an app should be functional without the user accepting data sharing policies.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hassle would that be? They could send you SMS or call you. Would they really find that too difficult? The mind boggles.

1 on 1 can be done. But group communication? They will leave you out and it will be your burden to get the info using another channels.

That seems quite the choice to make: learn about group chats or send all your data to Facebook.

It seems quite one-sided.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got used to the strange looks. I got the strange looks when people heard I didn't use Facebook. If you asked them to sign up to a website on the Internet that was popular in your circles just so you could be friends, they'd refuse, eg. "please sign up to basschat.co.uk because all my friends like bass guitars". If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't…

> If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't it? This argument doesn't make sense. You can't just ignore practical aspects entirely and justify it with a cheeky "if they're truely your friends they'll accomodate ahah". Sure if I want to send a private message to a friend I don't care whether its via SMS or whatsapp, but if I'm in a group chat with 5 of my…

Why not inform your friend of the outcome? Half of the group chats seem to be utter nonsense until a final outcome is made, particularly with arranging something.

Or would you not want your friend to attend?

The choice is: do I want my friend to be included in my activities?

The choice is not: do I want my friend to be included and also send all of his data to some people I've never met?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#918

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

Wow I had a similar experience at university. I only joined Facebook because my course had a Facebook group where we all communicated. Now this same hook exists in WhatsApp. It’s pretty crazy

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#919
post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends. I lost many of my contacts moving to Matrix but earned a lot of new high value ones that share my worldview to continue building a decentralized censorship resistant internet.

> Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends. This is kind of an unreasonable, one sided, stance. You exact everyone to simply follow you and your preferences with no regard for their preferences. Maybe you not respecting them and their worldview makes you the bad friend, not the other way around. > I lost many of my contacts moving to Matrix but earned a lot of new high value ones that share my worldv…

If someone believe something is legitimately toxic to themselves or society, like being around smoke, consuming certain substances, eating meat, using walled garden internet services etc... They should not be peer pressured into giving up those views.

I for one avoid Google products for personal communications. A lot of long term friends decided they only want to socialize online with Google products fully knowing it excludes me, in spite of easily accessible alternatives like Matrix and Jitsi.

They are not using Google products because it makes the world better, they are using it because they don't like change, and changing to maintain a friendship with me was not worth trying to use less privacy hostile communication mediums.

Fair enough.

I for one would not exclusively socialize at a Brazilian steakhouse if I had a vegan friend in a given social circle.

I will go to great lengths to accommodate people that are acting on authentic ethical convictions but if someone is only doing something that conflicts with my ethical convictions because they can't be bothered to try something new, then they obviously don't value me, and I'll invest more time with people who do.

You should live your convictions and find people that either share them, or at least respect you enough to accommodate them.

I don't expect others to think or act like me, but I would expect that my legitimate desire to maintain privacy in personal communication to be respected by anyone worth my time.

Plenty of friends that don't share my views put up with using some open tools to keep in touch with me. I likewise accommodate some of their preferences that don't make any sense to me. Everyone has a mix of deal breakers and things they can be flexible on in any type of human relationship.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#920

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

It’s a shame the technology and usages are still moving quickly enough that there’s no obvious standardization that’ll last the next five years.

Social technologies would benefit from some regulation along the lines of “you must be able to use other apps to send to/receive from your app” for at least a minimal feature set, but it would be super hard to nail down what that regulation should exactly be.

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