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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#911

Post by anonuser123456 »

sjs382 wrote: post #397

It's hard to make too much sense about what happened. Here's what I made of it, if anyone can point out any important mistakes/inaccuracies/details: 1. She and her co-authors submitted a paper for review 1 day before its (external, for publication?) due date. It's supposed to be submitted to Google 2 weeks prior, so they can review. 2. The authors submitted it externally before the review was returned. 3. Google deci…

There is one additional detail that is relevant I'm aware of; Timnit also sent an internal email to staff as reported here:

https://www.platformer.news/p/the-withering-email-that-got-a...

One can judge the content for themselves, but it was clearly intended to ratchet up pressure on management.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#912

Post by aphelion »

What passes for AI ethics research is akin to a "Hiroshima ethics research" that focuses on the carbon footprint of the Enola Gay and the lack of BIPOC representation on the team that assembled the Little Boy bomb.

I don't care if the corporations building a dystopian panopticon are intersectional.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#913

Post by visarga »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #81
prionassembly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tone of her replies is regrettable: Yann: “ML systems are biased when data is biased" Timnit: “I’m sick of this framing. Tired of it. Many people have tried to explain, many scholars. Listen to us. You can’t just reduce harms caused by ML to dataset bias. Even amidst of world wide protests people don’t hear our voices and try to learn from us, they assume they’re experts in everything. Let us lead her and you fol…

I find it strange to take issue with the "I'm so tired" line. It would seem to be entirely appropriate for circumstances where you see an argument that you have replied to many times but that completely ignores your reply. It also just doesn't strike me as particularly hostile or profane. Quitting twitter and making a show of it strikes me as a far more emotional reaction, but nobody here seems to take any issue with…

> "I'm so tired"

Tiredness is probably coming from trying to educate people on Twitter, you can't do that because tomorrow a fresh batch will come and you have to start over.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#914

Post by visarga »

uoaei wrote: post #175
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it strange to take issue with the "I'm so tired" line. It would seem to be entirely appropriate for circumstances where you see an argument that you have replied to many times but that completely ignores your reply. It also just doesn't strike me as particularly hostile or profane. Quitting twitter and making a show of it strikes me as a far more emotional reaction, but nobody here seems to take any issue with…

> so... I guess you're tired of it? Yeah GP is modeling exactly the behavior they're railing against. Claiming that something is wrong without any practical insights for how that thing might be better.

It's not exactly the same behavior - it's along the lines of "can't tolerate intolerance" (meta).

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#915

Post by visarga »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #523
dig1 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are a researcher in academia you won't be asked to retract your research because it makes someone look bad. Not entirely accurate (worked in academia). If your research makes someone look bad or have a chance to jeopardize financing, usually you won't get a chance even to send the paper, because it will be shut down in your research center by either your mentor or other peers. Sound mentors are well connecte…

This is not my experience. As a PhD student I've already had a (strong) disagreement with my thesis advisor about whether to submit a paper or not. My advisor thought I shouldn't, I thought I should. In the end, I submitted it and it got rejected and that's where the whole affair stopped. Actually, I really can't think of how my advisor would tell me not to publish a paper, except to suggest that it's not ready for p…

I bet your papers have math and you know, neural nets in them. This paper was just prose, mostly non original claims, it basically says - this thing is dangerous, that thing has negative effects, offering no solution, just drawing attention to issues, let's say an issue inventory. Then it follows that it's more of an ethics paper than ML, and should be judged by the standards of ethics papers.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#916

Post by sillysaurusx »

throwaway74453 wrote: post #819
black_puppydog wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, that also took a bit of disentangling for me. As such, I find it really quite baffling that someone would be unwilling to share that scientific feedback with her, or who raised it.

She has a history of attacking people through social media. If I were reviewing her paper, I would certainly not want to be known to her, especially if I were critical of it. The possibility of retaliation from her is very real and she often uses her considerable twitter following to do exactly that. I believe she thinks she's doing the right thing, but from a disinterested party's perspective she seems like a bully.

Hello! I just wanted to point out that she addressed your point: https://twitter.com/AkhandBharat365/status/13349035240066088...

I remembered your comment here, so I came back to post this, for what it's worth.

I'm still not entirely sure what to think.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#917

Post by rbanffy »

username90 wrote: post #806
rbanffy wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Follow all the social justice rituals and shibboleth and you suddenly get the camouflage of an empathetic, good person. If a person is indistinguishable from a good human being, isn't it actually a good human being?

No, plenty of rapists and abusers etc do all the social justice rituals.

Then they are distinguishable by observable behavior.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#918

Post by FeepingCreature »

kazamaloo wrote: post #882
FeepingCreature wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "placeholder approval" is also known as an "approval". If they didn't want to approve it, they shouldn't have done it.

what you refer to as "they" are two different entities.

If the company doesn't even have a clear indication who is authorized to approve things, that seems much more a Google problem.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#920

Post by baryphonic »

WitCanStain wrote: post #488
baryphonic wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is so unhelpful and dumb. The US has historically been one of the most racist and discriminatory organizations in North America. Does that mean we shouldn’t engage the US? Does that mean the US can’t be less racist? Does that mean the US isn’t a tool we can try to use to make the world a better place? I'm not sure this makes much sense. "Racism" (I'm guessing you mean things like slavery or de jure discriminat…

Do you have sources where I can read about this?

Yes.

For the former, I'd recommend chapter three of Thomas Sowell's Black Rednecks & White Liberals, about the history of slavery.[1]

For the latter, I'd recommend Illiberal Reformers, about the Progressive Era and its devotees.[2] Later Progressives were responsible for the school-to-prison pipeline and militarized police.[3] The Progressive Era has a wide array of interesting literature, including the writings of many of its early exponents (since they tended to be writers or academics).

[1]https://www.amazon.com/Black-Rednecks-Liberals-Thomas-Sowell...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Illiberal-Reformers-Eugenics-Economic...

[3]https://reason.com/2017/01/21/no-way-out/

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