Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#911

Post by untog » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

blisseyGo wrote: post #670

untog wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big Tech also has plenty of close ties to Republicans: remember when Facebook’s Joel Kaplan appeared at Kavanaugh’s Senate hearing? https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-facebook-exec-backs-kavana... And find one of @pinboard’s regular threads on the political donations big tech companies make and you’ll find a lot of Republicans: https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/1152245502361997314 The reality is that once you’re as…

EDIT: dang, I understand my political views don't align with vast majority of HN but me replying to correct false info keeps giving me this error on HN: "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." I think HN keeps turning into an echo chamber and any opposing view point on a specific political topic gets censored/throttled here too. How can you expect me to have a proper discussion when I am not even allowed…

(you're not being censored for your political views, it's because you're posting too many times in one thread. I get the same alert sometimes)

Again, my point isn't that there are no Democratic Facebook execs, it's that they play both sides. To whit:

> Indeed, the three top leaders of Facebook's DC office all have extensive backgrounds in Republican politics: Vice President for Global Public Policy Joel Kaplan; Vice President for U.S. Public Policy Kevin Martin; and Public Policy Director for Global Elections Katie Harbath.

That article also outlines a number of right-wing friendly moves that Facebook has made in recent years, just as a counterpoint to the example being discussed here.

I agree with you that the vast majority of staff at these tech companies are Democrats, but I'm talking about the top-level execs. And once you reach that level you see the top tech companies play both sides of the political aisle as best they can.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#912

Post by Karunamon » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #887

Karunamon wrote: post #291

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

> and prevent anyone from even private messaging the link to each other I can't find this stated anywhere except HN posts. What is the original source for this?

Various tweets from affected people, including screenshots, were all over last night. This isn't new, though. When Twitter blocks a URL, it applies even to DMs.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#913

Post by ufmace » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

whoevercares wrote: post #841

labster wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but this is what makes the situation so dangerous in the U.S. If no one’s mind is changed over events like these, then we’re at a point where there are essentially two citizenries which both see the other side as toxic. We’re slouching towards civil war. Most people don’t want war, but do see the other side as harmful, so we have to try hard to avoid it. Maybe we’re all looking at it wrong, maybe a civil war i…

Is Civil war possible at all in US’s military system today?

There might be something like a civil war, but it won't look anything at all like the last one. Don't look for two armies marching on fields against each other. Do look for dozens of shadowy groups practicing guerilla warfare against each other and the state, with actions gradually escalating in intensity.

You can make a pretty decent argument that this is already happening.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#914

Post by specialist » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #831

specialist wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I do not get is why some people honestly do believe that an average person needs to be protected from lies by a censor?" I was a Chomsky style free speech ultimatist. Unfortunately, humans aren't rational. Lying is super effective, its effects pernicious. They activate identity and trigger negative partisanship. Simply trying to refute lies only embeds them further. Profiting from the outrage machine (dopamine…

Freedom of speech doesn't rely on the belief that humans are rational, it relies on the belief that there's no fundamental difference between some enlightened, rational circle of censors and the irrational masses. WTF does this question have to do with the paradox of intolerance? There's nothing intolerant about the claim that the Bidens are corrupt. > It's quite a stretch to call any of that "news". So I don't see h…

"... it relies on the belief that there's no fundamental difference between some enlightened, rational circle of censors and the irrational masses."

This is a very excellent point.

While bingeing on HOPWAG, it finally occurred to me that our current food fight (fake news, cancel culture, censoring, trolling) might be due to very different ideas of What Is Truth.

If we can't even agree that the universe is knowable and someone somewhere probably has the correct answer, then the whole fight is pointless.

"In your view some elite group should decide..."

That's the exact opposite of my view.

We'll always have more falsehoods than truth. Even when we're trying to find the truth. The challenge of mitigating the replication crisis (in science) is proof of that.

Plus, I no longer care what the truth is. Because my opponents don't care. So further debate is pointless.

At this point I only want two things.

#1

Unplug the outrage machine.

#2

To be left alone.

I'd like to go ONE FULL DAY without having to think about this stuff. I shouldn't have to completely unplug from the world and actively defend my filter bubble just to do normal people stuff.

"...have to do with the paradox of intolerance? There's nothing intolerant about the claim that the Bidens are corrupt."

Honestly, I'm not quite sure yet. It certainly seems "flood the zone with bullshit" strategy is related to triggering identity and radicalization.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#915

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #291

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

Didn't Twitter and Google already stated they want regulation? They are one of the few companies that actually can facilitate any form of large scale content scanning. Such mechanisms take years to develop if you even get the critical data needed.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#916

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

throwawaylolx wrote: post #889

DSingularity wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies which spend millions on counsel every year are not going to blunder. They either have anterior motives (boost the story through censorship) or they had no choice. I don’t know what to think anymore because I don’t understand how this censorship will have any effect other than causing the story to spread like fire.

> other than causing the story to spread like fire. Does it really? I haven't seen anything on Reddit or the likes. Seems to me that the censorship has been rather successful so far.

I am not even from the US and here almost everyone knows by now.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#917

Post by jcadam » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

ufmace wrote: post #913

whoevercares wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Civil war possible at all in US’s military system today?

There might be something like a civil war, but it won't look anything at all like the last one. Don't look for two armies marching on fields against each other. Do look for dozens of shadowy groups practicing guerilla warfare against each other and the state, with actions gradually escalating in intensity. You can make a pretty decent argument that this is already happening.

Can't wait for the 2AM knock on my door, and finding an armed group on my front porch demanding to know how I voted in the last election (I'm surprised people are still putting campaign signs on their lawns or stickers on their cars).

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#918

Post by CyberRabbi » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #883

CyberRabbi wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judges do when a lawsuit happens under a civil rights violation case.

Judges, who are government employees, would get to determine what speech is legitimate and what is not? No thanks, I’ll take the current system.

That’s literally how all civil rights are enforced.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#919

Post by partiallypro » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #616

partiallypro wrote: post #475

One might even argue that Facebook/Twitter are doing this explicitly to ensure a party is put in power that won't try to reform them in any way. Their actions show it, and their political donations show it. That's my putting on the tin foil, but I think you could make such an argument. We always talk about Big Oil, etc being friends to Republicans, but often ignore Big Tech's close ties to Democrats.

Big Tech also has plenty of close ties to Republicans: remember when Facebook’s Joel Kaplan appeared at Kavanaugh’s Senate hearing? https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-facebook-exec-backs-kavana... And find one of @pinboard’s regular threads on the political donations big tech companies make and you’ll find a lot of Republicans: https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/1152245502361997314 The reality is that once you’re as…

Those are small outliers, when it comes to actual public donations that the company, it's board, and it's employees make they all swing heavily to Democrats, not Republicans. Eric Schmidt was helping the Obama campaign while he was a Google board member. Out of all the companies, Facebook has handled this all the best, and you can tell because they are getting flack from both sides.

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close...

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#920

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #915

Karunamon wrote: post #291

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

Didn't Twitter and Google already stated they want regulation? They are one of the few companies that actually can facilitate any form of large scale content scanning. Such mechanisms take years to develop if you even get the critical data needed.

Saying you want regulation is a classic of DC lobbying. Exxon wants “regulation” too. What it means in practice is that they want to be part of the conversation in choosing what regulations get passed, so actual serious regulations don’t make their way through.