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The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

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Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#911
post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expensive cities have most of the jobs. There's a reason Pittsburgh's population declined by the hundreds of thousands since the 1970s. Sure you can get a cheaper house. But you aren't making coastal money. In the 60s those "small towns" had manufacturing plants you could just walk in and get a job at, many of which were union and paid extraordinarily well.

It's not an "either or". There are mid-range cities, with jobs and affordable housing. As many jobs as there are in SF, LA, NYC, etc, they don't comprise 100% of all jobs.

These mid range cities are not as agreeable as you think. I live in one. Housing is very expensive W.R.T income now.

The reason many of these places have cheap housing is largely because of abandoned neighborhoods, vacant lots, condemned housing, ancient housing which requires A TON of work...the neighborhoods people want to live in are pretty expensive still.

Not to mention the old school mentality and opportunity cost. I left one of those old school firms. It was 8-5 everyday, no variation, no flex hours. No vacation in your first year. No comp time for travel. Expectation of working additional hours. Poor yearly raises, etc. Small job market = small network = less salary jumps.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's a con. In the end capital has bargaining power over labor because labor works for capital. Labor needs to organize very hard to take back control and that's difficult when everyone is scared they'll lose their job. Capital is able to make unilateral decisions because it's usually controlled by single/very focused and competent entity.

> Labor needs to organize very hard to take back control and that's difficult when everyone is scared they'll lose their job It's fair to note that one party in the USA has worked very hard to break up unions. And it has worked. So it's not just labor vs. capital. It's labor vs. capital allied with the government.

Politicians don't want to lose their job, so they bow to capital's demands in exchange for campaign funding.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#913
post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is totally false. It's false for some locations but not for others. I checked on the two homes I lived in growing up and both appreciated slower than inflation from the late 90s to the early 2010s when they were last sold. In real terms they are about 20% cheaper than they were when my parents bought/sold them. Flyover suburbia is more affordable than it was 20-30 years ago. All major physical items are better an…

I dont quite agree. I dont think you can compare home to inflation only -- you have to also look at the income in that area as well as total cost. If incomes have also fallen, then the relative cost/income ratio may have remained the same (or as i'm proposing -- has increased.) As an example, there are depressed areas in flyover states where costs have indeed gone down. But incomes have gone down even more -- they ar…

It's not just in declining cities. One of those houses is in the suburbs of Chicago. It's true in basically everyplace outside of the ones I mentioned. You can find a SFH around any major city for 150-300k.

Healthcare is definitely eating up more of the budget. I'm open to the possibility that it's eating up so much more of the budget that it's making buying a house prohibitive, but the numbers I see don't back it up. Most people still have employer provided healthcare and don't pay 900 a month in premiums. Part of that is CoL. Your contribution are higher than my family plan premiums I got through the market place.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Labor needs to organize very hard to take back control and that's difficult when everyone is scared they'll lose their job It's fair to note that one party in the USA has worked very hard to break up unions. And it has worked. So it's not just labor vs. capital. It's labor vs. capital allied with the government.

Politicians don't want to lose their job, so they bow to capital's demands in exchange for campaign funding.

Well politicians from one party bow to capital's demands. Democrats get campaign funding from unions. I'm not claiming Dems are free from corruption or deals with big business - they are not. But they for sure have not worked hard like the GOP to destroy unions and worker rights in favor of big business and the rich.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#915
post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, not really > It is hard, if not impossible, to find a modest, small house. True, but small condos have seen similar appreciation > houses are full of glitzy appliances, fixtures, moldings, and counters. It really does just heavily inflate the price. This do increase the price of real estate, but not that much relative to the bigger picture. The price of a "glitzy" fridge vs. a non glitzy fridge is going to be wha…

A sizable percentage of people don't want to live in condos. And they aren't necessarily small, either. >This do increase the price of real estate, but not that much relative to the bigger picture. The price of a "glitzy" fridge vs. a non glitzy fridge is going to be what, $500? $1,000? That's an extreme understatement. A glitzy refrigerator might only had $500 but marble counters might add $20,000 or more. Same with…

> A sizable percentage of people don't want to live in condos. And they aren't necessarily small, either.

Most condos are small. If a sizeable proportion of people don't want to live in condos, that would make them cheaper. The fact that they're appreciating similarly that is further evidence that the premium for size is not the driver of what's happening.

> That's an extreme understatement. A glitzy refrigerator might only had $500 but marble counters might add $20,000 or more. Same with flooring. The price difference on a house full of stick on vinyl and real hard wood might be an additional $20,000. Then you get to other cosmetics such as crown moldings, jacuzzi tubs, walk in showers, vaulted ceilings, heated towel racks, and more.

Most properties don't have jacuzzi tubs or vaulted ceilings. You're not wrong, but they're not relevant to the discussion of what's happening to the median home buyer.

It's nonsensical to think that the price of housing has risen primarily because of quality increases because many, many houses have seen large appreciation with no changes.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#916
post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the "Avocado Toast" argument that we're poor because we spend $10 on Avocado Toast. It is totally false. It blames citizens for national structural economic problems like hidden inflation and like bad housing policies discouraging building/planning. People spend $10 for Nextflix, $90 for Amazon, etc as short term pleasures because they cant spend $GIANT on a mortgage. What are you supposed to do? Might as wel…

>It is totally false. It's false for some locations but not for others. I checked on the two homes I lived in growing up and both appreciated slower than inflation from the late 90s to the early 2010s when they were last sold. In real terms they are about 20% cheaper than they were when my parents bought/sold them. Flyover suburbia is more affordable than it was 20-30 years ago. All major physical items are better an…

Chicago is only getting more expensive

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#917

I really love the quote at the end: > I'm a dad who is happy to have his daughter and fiancé living with me. They pay the utilities and make me nice meals, and it makes it a lot less lonely here. ... I like the multi-generational thing. I know it won't last forever, but it makes life better for now. It's so easy to get into that cold statistical mindset about these large-scale trends, but it's good to remember that t…

I have friend who immigrated to the U.S. when he was in his teens.

After graduating college and finding a good job, he went to get a roommate and move out. His parents were horrified. "Why are you going to move out of your family's house so you can pay money to live with strangers you found on the internet?".

At first we all laughed because it seemed like a case of immigrant parents no getting how things worked here, but the more we all thought about it, the more the parents seemed to make an excellent point, and one none of us had really considered.

Not sure when families living together became a sign of failure rather than a sign of a close family.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#918
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also useful to note that the "nuclear family" is a very Western thing, and the US takes it to an extreme. In other parts of the world it's abnormal for adults in their 20s to be living anywhere but with their parents, often even with a fiance or new spouse in the mix. The idea that having a multi-generational household means that the younger members haven't "grown up" and need to "learn to live on their own" is…

While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen. It…

> While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally.

That's really depressing. I'm sorry your social circle has such poor family dynamics. The majority of inter-generational families I know quite like the arrangement. Grandparents love having grand kids around, parents enjoy the extra help of the grandparents, meals are a lot more fun, etc.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#919
post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is totally false. It's false for some locations but not for others. I checked on the two homes I lived in growing up and both appreciated slower than inflation from the late 90s to the early 2010s when they were last sold. In real terms they are about 20% cheaper than they were when my parents bought/sold them. Flyover suburbia is more affordable than it was 20-30 years ago. All major physical items are better an…

Chicago is only getting more expensive

The city, sure. But the surrounding suburbs are affordable

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen. It…

This matches my experience that children of immigrants from intergenerational living cultures choose to live separate from parents if they can afford it. No one makes compromises unless they have to, and unless you have a big soundproof house, two or more couples living together are going to bump into each other. I see older parents moving back in with kids due to declining health, but otherwise the consensus seems t…

Having your family under one roof isn't a compromise, unless you don't like your family. Sure, there are downsides at times to having everyone together, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
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