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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#911

Post by siruncledrew »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

What I don't get about the fervor the Trump administration is placing on banning Chinese apps over national security is that: i) on one hand there were Congressional hearings held 2 weeks ago where Trump said "Big Tech (FAANGs) were too big and needed to be broken up", and ii) on the other hand the US gov wants to now further cement American companies as de facto 'monopolies' for the world.

There's already various international issues with CCP-affiliated companies, but there must be some ulterior motive to go after TikTok and WeChat with such urgency right now, as opposed to any other time in the last 4-5 years.

* Personally, I think the result of what happens to TikTok, WeChat, or US app stores over Chinese apps doesn't matter in the end. What matters is that demands on Chinese apps to come to a deal with the US by September gives Trump more firepower to work with - if the deal happens, Trump paints himself as a US savior from Chinese meddling; if the deal doesn't happen, Trump blames China entirely as the bully and pushes America to retaliate.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#912

Post by minusSeven »

mikechen233 wrote: post #853
minusSeven wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think China already promised that one or two years ago during the trade war with US but nothing major has come of it. I doubt China would follow through because it can have potential consequence in their censorships rules. I guess eventually all other countries would resort to having laws specific to handling Chinese companies and all laws common for companies of all other countries.

China already enacted foreign investments law. Tesla uses it to enter the Chinese market freely. Build factories, sale electric vehicles, enjoy all tax and subsidy that local companies are. And so will VW, and any other auto maker. IP protection is strengthening as well. In the areas of internet service there is still the internet security law, which requires all internet services providers to store data locally and…

Can I buy shares of Chinese companies when I am not a Chinese citizen? Until that happens I am not buying what you are saying.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#913

Post by kodablah »

novok wrote: post #877
baddox wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

I think the principle of regulatory reciprocity is fairly standard. If country X has tarrifs on your goods, it's fairly standard to bring up the same tarrifs on their goods into your country. Same with visa laws. If country X defacto bans certain products and companies from operating/selling in their country on the basis of national origin and not product type, then I would assume eventually the same would happen on…

> I think the principle of regulatory reciprocity is fairly standard

In this case, since it's a communication tool, this is more freedom restriction reciprocity than regulatory reciprocity. Communication freedom is not the fire you want to fight fire with.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#914

Post by alexryan »

jdietrich wrote: post #804
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

>Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US? The US gains very substantial economic benefits from being an attractive place for international companies to do business. Foreign investors know that when they invest in America, they're getting a stable regulatory environment and a reasonably trustworthy civil legal system. If America decides to undermine that trust for short-term gain, there will be…

If this were purely a battle for economic gain, as many in Silicon Valley are inclined to believe, then you are certainly correct that the CCP has more staying power. But, with respect, I think you vastly underestimate the human desire for freedom from tyranny. This ends when the Chinese overthrow the CCP and China takes its rightful place amongst the democratic nations.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#915

Post by alexryan »

bradleybuda wrote: post #731
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

The CCP has a saying. Win-win means we win twice.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#916

Post by fendy3002 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #886
zwaps wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does this exact argument not also justify the US and Europe to pursue their own interests? Isn’t that what Trump thinks he is doing? I mean, there is plenty of countries around Europe that are sort of doing worse than China, but are still strongarmed by these Chinese. Maybe the EU should also get in on this, not allowing any Chinese firms onside our borders. After all, our companies are even more fragile. A call…

The EU protects all sorts of industries, glaringly agriculture with CAP. I can see a case why we should have regulated social media, search and shopping platforms (which are highly monopolistic) a decade ago. The EU did not do any of that, and it's left with virtually zero digital footprint. Considering the importance of the digital economy for growth, it's quite logical to regulate itself to the the creation of a lo…

Half joke question, if EU managed to deliver their own social media restricted in EU, what will be the main language?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#917

Post by 13415 »

vkou wrote: post #765
cwhiz wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This short sighted policy is what has led to the slow decay of the American middle class.

No, the policy that lead to the decay of the American middle class is not China's rules on foreign investment. The policy that lead to that is American companies embracing globalism, which is, by the way, an American neo-liberal ideology.

Globalism is and always was inevitable and has in fact started already 200 years ago. It's also not a problem. A problem is how countries deal with the middle class and how they transform their society when there are shifts in production. For example, it's not China's fault that the average salary of a US CEO was 361 times higher than that of a factory worker in 2018, as opposed to only having been 20 times higher in the 1950s.

What we see right now is really just the emergence of China as an economic super-power, thanks to their gigantic internal market and their technological advances. This was predicted for the past 40 years or so and it nothing to do with the problems that the US is facing. These problems are mostly internal.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#919

Post by Udik »

jmknoll wrote: post #667
Udik wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens Is that actually true? China seems to be even using affirmative action to benefit its minorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China

China is literally putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps by the millions. It has some affirmative action laws on the books but they are 100% lip service and don’t result in anything meaningful.

> they are 100% lip service

Do you have first hand knowledge of this or are you just repeating what you think you know?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#920

Post by ardy42 »

woopwoop wrote: post #608
unishark wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It ceases to be reciprocal if you distinguish groups at an only slightly higher resolution: Chinese businesses like TikTok and WeChat and American businesses like Google and Facebook in addition to the Chinese and American governments. This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. You can see examples worldwide right now wi…

> This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. What? Which part of our immigration system is reciprocal?

> What? Which part of our immigration system is reciprocal?

China and the US reciprocally offer certain kinds of 10-year visas to each other's citizens.

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