Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#911

Post by postphoned » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 3:21 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #766

mancerayder wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling someone to fuck off is fine. If we're talking about Reddit and some group that goes around spamming other subreddits, that's a different topic than the "punch a Nazi in the face" meme that repeats itself among the Orwellian types who see no problem. Threatening someone by punching them in the face or social ostracism (which can range from discomfort to job loss) is a restriction of freedom of expression. That…

> that's a different topic than the "punch a Nazi in the face" meme that repeats itself among the Orwellian types who see no problem Yes it is, indeed. I'd be quite OK with banning subreddits because of repeated use of memes about punching nazis with reference to Trump supporters. Which subreddits, specifically, did you have in mind? Can you provide links?

I guess you have never been to /r/news then?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#912

Post by postphoned » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #398

jakobdabo wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, why moderate a public forum? Why should platform owners decide what's right and what's wrong? If something is legal then why should we censor it just because it may seem hateful to someone, or somebody feels offended? So what if a post offends somebody? They can deal with it like an adult. Ignore the trolls, and discuss if there is a discussion, offending or not. If people want a safe private place with no intrud…

There is a certain amount of irony here, due to this comment's presence on as heavily moderated a forum as this.

>There is a certain amount of irony here, due to this comment's presence on as heavily moderated a forum as this.

The difference is that on HN the political content (so far) remains contained to a few articles every now and then, plus you can still read 'flagged' comments. Even if I have a strong political opinion I prefer HN in this curated way.

On Reddit on the other hand every major subreddit gets politicized eventually (/r/pics, /r/news), on-topic discussions being derailed to shout about Trump, calling people "Nazis" and the mods will rather ban or delete the posts that call the activists out or which cite 'inconvenient' facts. Complete threads get nuked in the most intransparent ways which can be seen using third-party tools like https://snew.notabug.io Inside the major subreddit only one side (the 'Left' side) of the political spectrum is allowed to voice their opinions even if those were off-topic in the first place.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#913

Post by monksy » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #874

andybak wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall there was slightly more to it than that. I don't have the time or inclination to get drawn into this now but I didn't want an incomplete summary to stand unchallenged.

That is about it. That, and that given the opportunity to apologise for it, he didn't. He immediately lost the respect and trust of most mozillians and a lot of the public, which itself made him unfit for the role. I don't know if you can really say he was forced out; you don't keep a CEO around when nobody in a company of hundreds of employees trusts them.

> That is about it. That, and that given the opportunity to apologise for it, he didn't.

It was personal funds right? Why should he apologize? Should you apologize for buying something from a competitor? Who do you apologize to for making a private transaction with your own money?

> He immediately lost the respect and trust of most mozillians and a lot of the public, which itself made him unfit for the role.

He did? Was he unable to perform his job? They uncovered this after the deed was done. Was that faith lost while they didn't know about it? If you asked Firefox users right now: how many people would even be able to tell you about this situation?

> I don't know if you can really say he was forced out; you don't keep a CEO around when nobody in a company of hundreds of employees trusts them.

Did the employees get polled on this? (My bet is no)

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#914

Post by lowtolerance » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

SmokeyHamster wrote: post #806

wnevets wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a number of subreddits like r/ConsumeProduct were taken over by the hate mongers from the_donald. You would have post brigaded to the front page that had absolutely nothing to do with consumerism or product promotion

Can you link to an example? Oh right...it's all deleted, so we'll have to take your word...and your definition of whatever you consider "hate"...which has no definition...

“Hate” has no definition? That’s a new one. Maybe consider consulting a dictionary.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#915

Post by ceedan » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

50ckpuppet wrote: post #140

ceedan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're saying horrible things about her by attacking her gender, then it wouldn't be hate speech. If you have a difficult time saying horrible things about Hillary Clinton without attacking her gender, you might actually be sexist. Think about it. How do you really feel about women?

Do you mean like attacking members of her own gender when she persecuted her husband's rape victims to protect her own political aspirations? I imagine Juanita Broddrick would have something to say about this?

I think your reply is irrelevant to what I've written. I'm not defending Hillary. My point is that if you can't attack Hillary Clinton (a politician) without gender slandering, you're probably be sexist.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#916

Post by scrollaway » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #913

scrollaway wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is about it. That, and that given the opportunity to apologise for it, he didn't. He immediately lost the respect and trust of most mozillians and a lot of the public, which itself made him unfit for the role. I don't know if you can really say he was forced out; you don't keep a CEO around when nobody in a company of hundreds of employees trusts them.

> That is about it. That, and that given the opportunity to apologise for it, he didn't. It was personal funds right? Why should he apologize? Should you apologize for buying something from a competitor? Who do you apologize to for making a private transaction with your own money? > He immediately lost the respect and trust of most mozillians and a lot of the public, which itself made him unfit for the role. He did?…

Dude/dudette, you're barking up the wrong tree, I didn't care about Eich then and I don't care about him now. I'm just confirming the post YOU wrote above, so quit it with this weird tone.

Also, your expectations of a CEO of a corporation as large as Mozilla are out of whack. If Pinchai, Bezos, Satella, Musk etc were publicly put on the spot for personal views that were antithetical to their respective corporations and lost the trust of their employees and the public, they'd either apologize or lose their job. Weird hill to die on.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#917

Post by opiemonster » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

CogentHedgehog wrote: post #742

dmoy wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech Sure, but in practice this is what true free speech on reddit for a large sub looks like before moderation * 3 knee jerk replies * 10 pieces of spam asking you to buy their bit/altcoin or click on their affiliate links * 5 people who are hurling vile insults at you for whatever reason * 8 more people who are hu…

As moderator of a top-100 subreddit: this is SO incredibly accurate. You must be another moderator of one of the big subreddits. 90% of my work is nuking flamewars, spammers, trolls, and low-effort meme replies. Without automation and human moderators to clean up, it's basically impossible to have a free exchange of ideas or any good discussion. Free speech disappears into the noise. The idea of free speech is great…

One of the original ideas was with the up and down arrows, the good content rises to the top. The problem with heavy handed moderators is that they are often biased and many get on a power trip.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#918

Post by Gunax » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #664

Gunax wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a white supremacist is not someone who advocates for bringing jobs back home, or enforcing immigration law. But people still feel free to call Trump racist because of those policies. The reason is that people view him as having ulteriour motives beyond his stated ones. Everyone is for affordable housing, so being in favour of that has no political bearing. But there are different proposed solutions to that. Putti…

> a white supremacist is not someone who advocates for bringing jobs back home, or enforcing immigration law. But people still feel free to call Trump racist because of those policies. And his multiple criminal/civil findings of guilt for discrimination against black people and minorities in his real estate businesses? I'm going to take a guess that _that_ may be why people call racist, not because he "advocates for…

Although I disagree (yes the view that his immigration policy is fundamentally rooted in fear of brown people is common) I'm not trying to make it about Trump, or to argue pro or against him per se.

I'm trying to say that the person I responded to is basically strawmaning. No one says that giving affordable housing is necessarily communist. But instead the particular solutions are.

Conservatives want affordable housing too--they just think that other solutions are better.

It's a common argumentative fallacy. If you don't support my solution, you must be against the problem.

If it's fair game to say that Trump's immigration policy has ulterior motives (basically he doesn't want brown people in the country) I think it's fair (maybe not true, but fair game) to say that people who want to tax wealth are communist or communist leaning.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#919

Post by Gunax » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #543

Gunax wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is difficult because there are different definitions of 'right' as well as different environments. They can be successful at the ballot box nationally but still be persecuted. Remember that Brendan Eich was forced out of Mozilla for his views. To be a professor in University of California one has to pass a political litmus test. So yea I do think there is persecution.

> Remember that Brendan Eich was forced out of Mozilla for his views. He was forced out due to a 1000$ personal donation to a political group that was Christian/right leaning. Political speak: "Incompatible/Hostile views"

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. But the fact that that's considered a hostile view is precisely the kind of persecution that I mean.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#920

Post by Gunax » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #874

andybak wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall there was slightly more to it than that. I don't have the time or inclination to get drawn into this now but I didn't want an incomplete summary to stand unchallenged.

That is about it. That, and that given the opportunity to apologise for it, he didn't. He immediately lost the respect and trust of most mozillians and a lot of the public, which itself made him unfit for the role. I don't know if you can really say he was forced out; you don't keep a CEO around when nobody in a company of hundreds of employees trusts them.

But that's exactly what I mean when I say political persecution.

If his political views cause him to lose the respect of his employees, and losing the respect of his employees causes him to be unfit, then his political views caused him to be unfit.