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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#911

Post by jachee »

remote_phone wrote: post #866
jachee wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I made $125k a year, that'd be almost double my current salary. I could spare the $25k, then, if you were struggling. Could you do the same in the reverse situation?

Do you donate your extra money to charity or do you save some for your future? If you have the privilege of being able to save some money for your future, shame on you! There are people starving and you’re amassing your wealth?

What is "Extra Money?" I'm doing my best not to drown in debt. I've calculated it, and I can retire when I'm 142.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#912

Post by rifung »

esyir wrote: post #595
rifung wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Equality of opportunity over outcome for me I'm also Asian American. This to me seems like it IS opportunity over outcome though. If you have two people who are equally hard working and one grows up in a disadvantaged environment, the latter going to score lower. My parents sacrificed a lot so I could go to a good school. It was completely obvious to see that not that hard working people at my school would do much…

Strong disagreement from me here. I believe that encouraging parents to invest in their children's growth is a good thing. Removing/reducing the benefit of this investment in the child is the kind of perverse incentive that's probably bad for society as a whole. Simply put, parents are now forced to weigh the comparative benefit of a high-end university education over the child's development. I'm betting that diminis…

> I believe that encouraging parents to invest in their children's growth is a good thing.

No disagreement from me there. However, I would prefer if a child's outcome were not so dependent on how willing their parents are to make sacrifices.

> Simply put, parents are now forced to weigh the comparative benefit of a high-end university education over the child's development. I'm betting that diminishing returns on development investment will at some point encourage investment in gaming the adversity score instead.

I'd argue the current system already does this. Placing such a high emphasis on scores just makes it so that parents are strongly encouraged to put their children in SAT/AP prep scores while ignoring other things that would likely be much more important.

I went to a school full of wealthy students. Almost all of them took prep classes to get really high scores.

As far as I could tell, there was absolutely no instance of people learning for the sake of learning and little no to interest in doing something for the sake of a child's development.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#913

Post by siruncledrew »

GhostVII wrote: post #215

I think instead of trying to lower the bar for low income students, we should work on solving the actual problems causing them to perform more poorly on the SAT (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills). If students are accepted with a lower SAT score because of their background, they are likely going to struggle in University, since they have lower scores than the rest of their class, s…

> "The rating will not affect students’ test scores, and will be reported only to college admissions officials as part of a larger package of data on each test taker."

I could be wrong, but my interpretation here is that there's a lot more data on students the CollegeBoard is reporting to colleges that students taking the test don't see or know about.

This also seems unfair to assess students on hidden metrics. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the CollegeBoard were to (or currently does) partner with Equifax to see parents' credit histories. There's an entire analytics farm on students.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#914

Post by siruncledrew »

max76 wrote: post #61

I think the goal of quantifying the amount of adversity a person experiences in their life is a fools errand. This is like asking "On a scale of 1-100 how beautiful is The Mona Lisa." Somethings can only be poorly approximated in numbers. Once we have a number it tends to become An Important Thing, regardless of how much the number reflects reality. It is ironic that SAT is making a new number that has little reflect…

There's so many variables, there's no real encompassing way to calculate this metric holistically.

Otherwise, every college application would need an addendum of "List every hardship or limitation you have ever experienced". It's not practical.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#915

Post by learc83 »

Mirioron wrote: post #724
jachee wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the status quo systematically oppresses one group and benefits another, the beneficiaries of said system will perceive any change to the status quo that would reduce the oppression of the former group as an unfair attack.

But it's not systemic oppression. The system doesn't try to keep poor people poor or uneducated. Do poor people have it harder? Yes, but they have many of the same opportunities available to them. The modern world is rich in information that is freely taught. College is signaling in large part, but there are plenty of opprobrious right now where skill beats signaling.

>The system doesn't try to keep poor people poor or uneducated.

The system doesn't have motives. Individual behavior can give rise to systemic oppression with no top level design goals needed.

If we take a look at Black people specifically:

Black sounding last names are half as likely to receive callbacks for job interviews. Black people are more likely to be arrested, convicted, and receive longer sentences for committing the same crimes as White people. It's harder for Black people to find housing. Its even harder for them to rent vacation properties.

Black children even receive harsher punishments for the same infractions in elementary school.

All of these things put together mean that yes, they are systemically oppressed, and the system is currently keeping them poorer and less educated. Exceptional individuals will overcome this oppression, but reinforcing feedback loops ensure that if something isn't done to break the cycle, it will continue, and as a class Black people will always be at a disadvantage.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#916

Post by cycrutchfield »

stale2002 wrote: post #903
cycrutchfield wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only skill you gain while cramming for the SAT is how to cram for tests like the SAT. The gameability of the SAT is not an indication of general scholastic aptitude

You have just described what college is. College is all about studying/cramming for tests. And yes, this applies to "top" engineering colleges and otherwise.

Maybe for you?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#917

Post by thatfrenchguy »

Sebguer wrote: post #260
GhostVII wrote: post #215

I think instead of trying to lower the bar for low income students, we should work on solving the actual problems causing them to perform more poorly on the SAT (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills). If students are accepted with a lower SAT score because of their background, they are likely going to struggle in University, since they have lower scores than the rest of their class, s…

How do you suggest solving a problem that comes down effectively to 'some people have more money and free time'? Not everyone can afford high quality tutoring, and high quality tutoring clearly has an impact on test scores.

Reduce the maximum working week to 20 hours. Boom, lots of free time.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#918

Post by thatfrenchguy »

wtdata wrote: post #329

In part this initiative rewards bad parenting and lack of responsibility for raising your kids. If you made imense effort to provide the best education possible to your child, to put him in a good school (even if that meant depriving yourself from a better material life and having 2 jobs), if you kept a non perfect marriage because that would be better for your child, if you only had one kid because you couldn't affo…

Isn't this a good thing to not encourage this so that your kid don't end up with mental issues because of your failed marriage and his childhood where you never saw them ?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#919

Post by learc83 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #839
freeone3000 wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If general scholastic aptitude measured something other than how to study for tests and write essays, then you might be onto something, except that college is simply more of the same.

Sure, maybe if you went to a degree mill.

I always wonder where people get this view of college (the GP's view that is). I went to a non-name state school for undergrad and it was nothing like the above.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#920

Post by stale2002 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #916
stale2002 wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have just described what college is. College is all about studying/cramming for tests. And yes, this applies to "top" engineering colleges and otherwise.

Maybe for you?

It is for a whole lot of students.
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