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iPhone X

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Re: iPhone X

#911

Post by mstolpm »

bsenftner wrote: post #910

Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D…

Ad 1): They briefly mentioned in the keynote that Face ID does indeed adapts to gradual changes like growing a beard. So, that form of recalibration seems to be part of the concept.

Re: iPhone X

#912

Post by discordance »

toephu2 wrote: post #895
zaroth wrote: post #782

They make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... her phone . If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll. Of cours…

Multiple users are not a common use-case. Everyone* over the age of 12 has their own phone. I doubt Apple will add that feature anytime soon. *By everyone I mean the majority of people in first world countries, some second, and third.

The smartphone has become the modern day version of the pacifier. Pretty much every parent I know hands their phone to their child and it's unsettling how effective it is at pacifying children.

As for this feature request, I think it makes sense... I wouldn't want my kid tapping on my work email or social apps.

Re: iPhone X

#913

Post by yoz-y »

zaroth wrote: post #782

They make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... her phone . If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll. Of cours…

I would prefer to only have 3 “users”. Personal, Work and Guest. The Guest account would have access to a list of apps that I have installed but would not share my history and data. For example I do not want my wife’s YouTube history mixed with mine.

I think that setting up multiple accounts would make the experience worse as I don’t want other people to get too comfy. On an iPad that is a different case though.

Re: iPhone X

#914

Post by bsenftner »

mstolpm wrote: post #911
bsenftner wrote: post #910

Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D…

Ad 1): They briefly mentioned in the keynote that Face ID does indeed adapts to gradual changes like growing a beard. So, that form of recalibration seems to be part of the concept.

It has to be.

Re: iPhone X

#915

Post by marcomonteiro »

leeoniya wrote: post #592

> Your face is now your password no, it isnt. and neither are your fingerprints. none of this publicly available data is a password. a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is secure from others. biometric data is a username/id . why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards?

Isn't it though? It's the "password" to the secure enclave which then provides a "password" to the OS.

Edit: I agree with your statement that "a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is secure from others." Which is why I like that there is a method for disabling TouchID/FaceID with iOS 11.

Re: iPhone X

#916

Post by yoz-y »

bsenftner wrote: post #910

Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D…

Do you have reason to doubt that Apple did not do all of this or even more? In the end we’ll see but one indicator is that the banks at least let them use Apple Pay with FaceId. I am guessing here but I suppose they will still get the “card present” tarifs and if I recall correctly that was tied to the fact that banks deemed TouchId a sufficient form of authentication.

Re: iPhone X

#917

Post by mtgx »

audunw wrote: post #642
leeoniya wrote: post #592

> Your face is now your password no, it isnt. and neither are your fingerprints. none of this publicly available data is a password. a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is secure from others. biometric data is a username/id . why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards?

> biometric data is a username/id. > why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards? They don't have it backwards, but they're also simplifying when they say it's your password. In the presentation they actually say specifically that there's a chance that someone else can unlock your phone (1 in 50'000 for fingerprint, and supposedly 1 in 1'000'000 for Face ID, given that you don't have a twin). Reality is th…

The FAR rate is quite misleading especially for facial recognition. FAR counts on the data being "random" for that 1:50,000 or 1:1 million to be true. But you can bet whoever is targeting you will build a 3D profile of your face out of all the pictures it can find on you online. I at least assume it won't be "easy" from the get go to bypass Apple's face unlock tech, like it was for the Galaxy S8 with a god damn 2D picture that we've been known for a decade that's an effective attack, but I also don't think it's impossible. Machine learning techniques will become advanced enough in a few years to build someone's 3D profile like that.

Plus, as the parent said on the issue of not being able to replace your face as you can your password, they can still target your face data stored on the phone.

Re: iPhone X

#918

Post by eight_ender »

bsenftner wrote: post #910

Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D…

Not hating on your points, because they're valid, but the sudden transformation part of #1 strikes me as similar to when your hands are wet and you're trying to use TouchID. The phone will shake the passcode prompt a few times and eventually give up and ask you for your passcode.

I don't really see a problem with this. Apple has done a good job of making it known their biometrics aren't perfect, and will err on the side of caution when tested with strange inputs. You're not allowed to setup the phone without a passcode, and it serves as the final barrier to access if biometrics fail.

Re: iPhone X

#919

Post by tw04 »

jakobegger wrote: post #850
zaroth wrote: post #782

They make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... her phone . If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll. Of cours…

I strongly doubt that Apple will make it easier to share devices. Every Apple device, from Macbooks to iPads to iPhones to Airpods is built to be a personal device. Even Macs, theoretically capable of multi-user, are a pain to share (eg try updating a Mac App Store app purchased with a different user account than the one you are logged in as) Apple doesn’t want to sell one shared device to a family. They want to sell…

Then, at least around iPhone, they're idiots. I'm not going to have one cellphone for the whole family. Even in the best case scenario of my wife being a stay-at-home mom, I'm going to work. I'm not leaving my phone with her all day at home. And she's not going without a cellphone all day. So... where's the "one device per family" coming in? Even if we assume kids "share" - that works until they're what? 5? 6? 10? At some point the kid is going to want a phone at the same time you do, and eventually "No because I said so" is going to fall on deaf ears.

Re: iPhone X

#920

Post by yoz-y »

nunez wrote: post #362

These keynotes were magical before leakers leaked everything. I'm wondering if Apple should scrap these and aim for smaller, unplanned releases instead. As far as this phone goes, I am really excited to see how it stacks up to the Galaxy S8. Face ID is incredibly enticing, but Samsung Pay is much more universal. The only thing that is making me want to retreat back to an iPhone is its inferior Bluetooth audio quality…

Does Samsung Pay work with more banks where you live? In France there is no support for it (due to come this month but still no dice). I suppose that both can be used anywhere you could use a contactless credit card.

(Aside: in France you can use Apple Pay anywhere a bank card would work up to 20€ but in shops with explicit support there is no limit, few have it though)

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