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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

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911–920 of 1001 posts

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#911
post #573

We take down Al Qaeda terrorist websites all the time because they can be used to radicalize people. Nazis are no different. They are calling for the systematic violent overthrow of the US government and for the extermination of many millions of so called undesirables. This is a terrorist threat. I take this threat very seriously as do many people in the Jewish, Hispanic, and African American community. There are lit…

"The idea that I'm seeing any of these comments arguing to the contrary means HN is already infiltrated by /pol/ and other Nazi sympathizing groups."

What it comes down to is that the people arguing for "free speech" here feel safe in this world, with a growing neo-nazi presence.

They don't feel threatened--they're not a target, the system will protect them, maybe they even have guns or plans to live off the grid, whatever.

They can argue that neo-nazi speech is OK because it isn't an existential threat to them. They may even look at the terrorist car attack in Charlottesville and think "lone wolf, random unplanned attack," but what it comes down to is: they're going to be OK. Cops will protect them, their stuff, the system is on their side.

Those of us who are OK with Cloudflare shutting down the Nazis, we don't trust the system to keep us safe. Cops won't protect us, the system is not on our side. We see the actual threat of nazi violence and death coming our way, and the "free speech" people are doing nothing to stop it.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#912
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is a cultural value says that controversial speech shouldn't be censored No, free speech (and the related freedoms of press, religion, and association) is a cultural value that says every member of society should be free to choose which ideas they will promote and which people they will associate with, applying their own values. That absolutely includes choosing which ideas from other people they will p…

Wow! What's up is down and down is up. I assume you are vehemently on the side those wedding cake bakers who refused to make a gay wedding cake, then? Once a private communications provider becomes recognized as communications infrastructure, they lose the right to police content that goes through their infrastructure. For example, my ISP, even though it participates in "spreading" my ideas, has no say in the matter.…

> Once a private communications provider becomes recognized as communications infrastructure, they lose the right to police content that goes through their infrastructure.

Then I guess you're in favor of passing legislation to this extent, right?

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#913
post #24
post #10

Free speech does not mean a company has to take part in spreading it :). Free speech is about your right to speak without the government locking you up, or censoring those who choose to broadcast/spread it. But nothing about free speech says someone else has to listen or spread it for you, companies included. The line is drawn at calling for violence though, which is pretty fucking tricky to navigate.

You're confusing free speech with the first amendment. Free speech is a cultural value says that controversial speech shouldn't be censored, rather it should be debated, condemned, or ignored. The first amendment guarantees the government will uphold this value. You are perfectly correct that private companies can throw the value of free speech in the dumpster if the CEO wakes up in a bad mood.

> Free speech is a cultural value

I might equally make the point that "not overtly calling for the forcible deportation of non-whites from the US" is a cultural value.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#914
post #226

I get the whole "companies can choose not to host whatever they want" argument, but in order to do anything on the internet, you have to interact with companies. If I want to run my own website, I need an IP address at the minimum, and ISPs are free to cut off my internet service if they don't like what I'm hosting. In a public setting, if people don't like what I'm saying, they can't force me to be quiet (generally)…

No one who supports Trump or Daily Stormer are likely not applying nearly as much inductive reasoning to their decisions as you are in this comment.

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#915

I find it weird that everyone jumps at Nazis when they do something bad, but when it's police being killed at BLM protests or people getting hit in the head with bike locks and shot at at Antifa protests, no one bats an eye. Why is it okay to leave out Black Nationalists and Communists/Anarchists and solely focus on Nazis? All these groups have blood on their hands.

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#917
I reported a website for human trafficking a year ago, which is still online and protected by cloud flare. I referenced parts of the forum to their staff where users mentioned enjoying raping women. Their response, "I don't see anything wrong with this content".

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being serious? The Nazi party is based on doing horrible shit to minorities. That's the ideology, that's what the leadership believed and that's the reason why people joined them.

Are you being serious? Islam is based on doing horrible shit to infidels. That's the ideology, that's what the leadership believed and that's the reason why people were forced to join them. You're a hypocrite.

In the 5th or 6th century. Christians were doing the same in the middle ages. Is that true of the Islam and Christianity people follow today? No.

Completely different when it's a modern ideology with people signing up today who want to see the extermination of minorities.

Yeah sure, it's hypocritical for men to support feminism because Ugg dragged his woman by the hair.

It appears you're trying to defend the indefensible.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a problem with this, because in effect it is saying that if you want to be in business, you have to check your principles at the entrance. Well, welcome to the club! Other noteable groups objecting to their principles being regulated by a government office include Masterpiece Cakeshop of Lakewood, CO, and Memories Pizza of Walker, IN. (For the moment, disregard the likes of Hobby Lobby and Little Sisters of…

You're missing out on option 4: People can't discriminate on properties that the person they are doing business with can't pick or change (gender, sexual orientation, color of skin, hair, size of nose ...) but can discriminate on properties that the person in question did choose or could change (voicing the desire to kill or suppress large parts of the population, affiliation with nazis or just being an idiot in gene…

I think this entire argument is classic "logic overreach". This is all socially constructed. There is no perfect logical algorithm for deciding what is reasonable.

The rule is more like "don't randomly screw people". Ok, we've decided to screw this Nazi website. Hmm, is that a case of randomly screwing people? Nope. OK, move along.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#920
post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay with neonazis saying disgusting things, as long as they play by the rules and don't commit any violence. (Hell, people brought AK-47's and AR-15's to Charlottesville but didn't use them, despite the violent clashes.) So intimidation and threats of violence are ok? Are you really commending these people for their restraint in not using AK-47s at a demonstration? One of the lessons from the first round of Nazi…

Think forward a little bit. The "all talk" guy with vile opinions backed by a violent mob is already in the White House . He won. Now is exactly NOT the time to try to curtail free speech in any way, lest that same precedent be used by the administration to stifle dissent by his opposition - you - in the future. Freedom of speech (and in fact a lot of the Constitution) is constructed to curtail governmental powers so…

Fortunately the all talk guy can not do much because there are still some other branches of government. But that doesn't mean that he wouldn't if he could.

The freedom of speech thing matters not one bit to the alt-right and the Nazis longer than it takes them to overthrow the present order, after that it will go out the window very quickly.

Democracy can be destroyed, it has happened before and it likely will happen again, there is absolutely no reason to believe that it could not happen in America.

Anyway, this whole discussion isn't about free speech to begin with, it is about hate speech and inciting to violence.

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