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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#901

Post by b112 »

HenrikB wrote: post #805
cyberrock wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The final law just makes replacing batteries more accessible (i.e. no glue or special screws), but it doesn't mandate battery packs. Also some devices like hearing aids are exempt. I question whether battery packs would be a good thing to bring back now. USB power banks have 100% interchangeability among many device classes, which is something that not even dry cell batteries achieved. I can choose to leave the house…

Agree - I read this as it will be easy to replace the battery when it reaches its end of life and no longer can hold my charge. It will still take time to replace it, but that's okay since it'll only be done once every few years. It's not meant to re-introduce swappable battery packs, so you won't be able to carry spares on long trips etc.

You will when people sell mods for phones, such as a replacement back wth easy access.

Or when phone manufacturers realise they may as well do so, at least on some models, because why not. And yes, the battery compartment can be waterproof with a rubber seal... but even so? Many would prefer battery swap to full waterproof, if that was the cost.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#902

Post by ur-whale »

esperent wrote: post #720
Postosuchus wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an excellent idea! It will work out absolutely great - much like Communism. Meaning, when you forcefully standardize and regulate how phones are built, you might expect that companies will not compete on making better phones (since they are not very much differentiated) but on who produces the cheapest phone.

You're thinking of socialism, which is what the EU is doing here (socialism-lite, anyway, as championed by the Social Democrats) and yes, it does work. Free healthcare, free education, and we're working towards decent privacy laws and regulations on big companies. It's far from perfect of course, but comparing it to how pure capitalism is going in the US it's clearly the better system.

> but comparing it to how pure capitalism is going in the US it's clearly the better system

Funny, I observe the exact same things you observe and come the exact opposite conclusion: Europe is currently dying a slow and painful death and will likely be entirely irrelevant in less than 10 years (not that they matter much anymore today already).

Some better system that is!

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#903

Post by everdrive »

bko wrote: post #660
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

Manufacturers are chasing tends. What is superior about the stupid notch at the top of the iPhone and some competitors -- and what is superior about getting phones thinner and wider? They're too big to put in a pocket, you're not even netting anything with all that extra space. etc. The point is that phones are not getting "better" in any material way except maybe for picture quality from the cameras.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#904

Post by n4r9 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #853
n4r9 wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia still make phones. They even had a line of smartphones until last year. I've got an XR20 "rugged" phone that's served me well for a few years.

That's technically HMD a separate company but with some Nokia people involved. Nokia just licensed the Nokia brand to them and I think that deal ran out some time ago. I had a Nokia Android phone before I got my Pixel 6 a few years ago. Decent value device but the camera was a bit meh. Nokia actually did an Android phone just before MS acquired them which they then promptly killed. And then of course they pulled the…

Ah, good to know!

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#905

Post by iszomer »

rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Separate battery modules can be subjected to obsolescence too, being hard pressed into finding a suitable replacement with similar specifications and which manufacturer that still makes them. I am on my 3rd Zenfone2 battery and it is definitely no longer in production..

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#906

Post by watwut »

bko wrote: post #660
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

> If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would.

I do not think they are colluding, but they are definitely chasing the same trends and users preferences don't seem to play that much role, unless it is one of the few essentials things. Effectively, users do not have much choice except in few areas. All phones being the same is not just because "everyone likes their phones to be unpractically huge or slow" .

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#907

Post by watwut »

eru wrote: post #732
bigfishrunning wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people will buy that phone and keep it much longer. When phones had replaceable batteries, they needed replaced after a couple of years because they were terrible. I'm now on a several year old pixel phone that I'm happy with, but eventually the battery will wear out and I'll have to replace it. Google likes it that way.

Battery tech has gotten a lot better every year over the last hundred years.

Their still go down after two-three years. Needing to charge twice a day is literal reason why I ever change the phone - otherwise I could use 10 years old one.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#908

Post by Ray20 »

ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote: post #886
Ray20 wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s why you can’t simply assume that competition will lead to the product offerings converging on the best product. You also can't simply assume that an existing solution on the market is not the best already. I mean, who told us that smartphones with user-replaceable batteries are better than smartphones that are 0.5 mm thinner because their batteries are non-replaceable? The same people who want to ban encrypt…

> You also can't simply assume that an existing solution on the market is not the best already. What kind of rash response is that? No one here is making a blanket claim that the market solution is categorically suboptimal. > I mean, who told us that smartphones with user-replaceable batteries are better... Let me repeat: you have to FIRST define what you mean by “better” and then ask that question. I want a phone wi…

> Are these people also upset about safety and environmental standards for cars

By the way, this is a good example of what happens when regulators lose to the market. By what year was initially planned the complete ban of internal combustion engine vehicles for some European countries? And where are we now?

The regulator lost, the market suffered, but survived, and many people are unhappy with the regulations.

And there are situations when the regulator wins. You know, like when the communist government came to power. And when the regulator wins, people die of hunger. All the people. Every single time.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#909

Post by ssl-3 »

IMTDb wrote: post #83
PaulKeeble wrote: post #2

Batteries have been used as part of planned obsolescence for too long and a whole small business industry of replacing phone batteries has appeared because of it. Next the EU are going to have to address security patches because its another aspect being used to sell new phones.

I have found out that the main phone providers (Apple, Google, Samsung) have extremely long support period. I really don't get the "planned obsolescence" thing. As an example, in Jan 2026, Apple published iOS 12.5.8 which provides updates for iPhone 5s which released in Sept 2013. That's 12.5 years ago. The equivalent would be to connect to the internet using ADSL in Jan 2000 with your IBM PS/2 rocking in intel 8086,…

IBM PC DOS 2000 was a thing that was published and sold. It would have ran fine on a system similar to what you describe. It addressed the only pressing thing in that space at that time that PC DOS 7 did not: Y2K compliance.

(I never had a PS/2, or ADSL, but I was goofing around with a low-memory 8088 box back then for fun. It had no hard drive. It bootstrapped from floppy, loaded the rest over the LAN with its built-in 10base2 Ethernet jack from my Linux box, and connected to dual-channel ISDN for Internet access. It worked. It even had a graphical web browser.

Being clever with an old iPhone is a very different thing.)

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#910

Post by spacephysics »

Bit tinfoil hat, but outside of the phone becoming thinner and other design benefits with integrated batteries, I largely think the intelligence community has an aligned interest to keep phone batteries from being hot-swappable like pre-iphone days.

Given the drafts vs final version of the bill/policy, looks like the battery now must be more easily replaced vs true camera-like battery hot swap.

Even with an iPhone turned off, NSA can still listen:

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/nsa-bug-iphone/

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