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Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

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Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#901

Post by LordDragonfang »

maccard wrote: post #862
LordDragonfang wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’ve been suggesting that programmers are going to be replaced by simpler programming languages, gui programming tools, no code tools, low code tools, and now AI. The difference is that it's actually working this time. Non-programmers are writing full apps. Sure, they're simple ones, often just CRUD and UI, but it actually is changing things in a way it never has before. You can't assert something is the same as e…

> The difference is that it's actually working this time. Non-programmers are writing full apps You can say this about every step along the way. C programmers replaced assembly programmers. Python programmers replaced C programmers. low code tools replaced interal tools teams. > I'm criticizing you for misrepresenting what claim was made in the first place. No where in your evidence have you shown anyone "walking the…

> I mean, I literally posted a quote from the CEO of one of the two major companies saying that SWEs are 6-12 months away from being replaced.

Even ignoring the other ways you're misrepresenting the, there's a huge difference between "might be" and "are going to be".

I'm sorry if English isn't your first language, but we're going to have to agree on basic grammar or else it's not going to be productive for me to continue responding to the flaws in your argument.

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#902

Post by janaraj »

chenzhekl wrote: post #767

It feels like the current trend is a bit scary: the more AI advances, the more people with money and resources will gain disproportionately greater advantages. For example, they can make their own software more secure, while also finding it easier to discover ways to attack other software.

yes, this is what am afraid of, the gap is going to increase more as AI advances further.

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#904

Post by timv »

mholm wrote: post #820
ozozozd wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The product they launched?

This product is explicitly not being released for usage

Imagine you were making purchasing decisions about which LLM-based coding tool to use.

If one of the possible vendors convinces you that that they have a next gen model that is so powerful it found 20+ year old bugs in a hardened operating system, that would undoubtedly have an influence on your decision even if you are only buying the current model.

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#905

Post by [deleted] »

cman1444 wrote: post #890
sam0x17 wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean by "nothing special" is 1 year from now you will say it is an extremely limited model compared to whatever is out then

But then in the second portion of your comment you seem to be implying that it's all hype and nothing to worry about. Just because something more powerful will be out in a year, doesn't mean we shouldn't worry about the one arriving in 6 months.

[deleted]

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#906

Post by sam0x17 »

cman1444 wrote: post #890
sam0x17 wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean by "nothing special" is 1 year from now you will say it is an extremely limited model compared to whatever is out then

But then in the second portion of your comment you seem to be implying that it's all hype and nothing to worry about. Just because something more powerful will be out in a year, doesn't mean we shouldn't worry about the one arriving in 6 months.

If you have no vulnerabilities in your code you have nothing to worry about

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#907

Post by menaerus »

jenniferhooley wrote: post #831
literalAardvark wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. The good ones use AI.

You are in a bubble. Some segments use essentially no AI, while others have gone all in. Just because the type of engineers you're surrounded by do engineering that is obsolete doesn't mean that's the case across the board. All the best game engineers I know still write at least 90% of the code (probably closer to 99%). The bad ones use AI nearly exclusively - just like yourself. They can't create very complex or per…

You're condescending for no valid reason and I will tell you that what you say is not correct. Models superseded "plumbing" tasks and went well into the engineering grounds a generation or two ago already. Evidence is plenty. We see models perfectly capable reasoning about the kernel code yet you're convinced that game engines are somewhat more special. Why? There're plenty of such examples where AI is successfully applied to hard engineering tasks (database kernels), and where it became obvious that the models are almost perfectly capable reasoning about that tbh quite difficult code. I think you should reevaluate your stance and become more humble.

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#909

Post by squeaky-clean »

3pt14159 wrote: post #383
Gigachad wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has already largely crushed hacking with memory tagging on the iPhone 17 and lockdown mode. Architectural changes, safer languages, and sandboxing have done more for security than just fixing bugs when you find them.

If what you are saying is true, then you would see exploit marketplaces list iOS exploits at hundreds of millions of dollars. Right now a cursory glance sets the price for zero click persistent exploit at $2m behind Android at $2.5m. Still high, and yes, higher than five years ago when it was around $1m for both, but still not "largely crushed". It is still easy to get into a phone if you are a state actor.

Those are for devices not in lockdown mode.

Re: Project Glasswing: Securing critical software for the AI era

#910

Post by jenniferhooley »

menaerus wrote: post #907
jenniferhooley wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are in a bubble. Some segments use essentially no AI, while others have gone all in. Just because the type of engineers you're surrounded by do engineering that is obsolete doesn't mean that's the case across the board. All the best game engineers I know still write at least 90% of the code (probably closer to 99%). The bad ones use AI nearly exclusively - just like yourself. They can't create very complex or per…

You're condescending for no valid reason and I will tell you that what you say is not correct. Models superseded "plumbing" tasks and went well into the engineering grounds a generation or two ago already. Evidence is plenty. We see models perfectly capable reasoning about the kernel code yet you're convinced that game engines are somewhat more special. Why? There're plenty of such examples where AI is successfully a…

Link me the research on the hard engineering tasks they've done on database kernels, I'd love to see it, sounds interesting.

As long as people comment, "Only bad/stupid engineers hand-write code because LLMs are better in every way," and that's objectively not true in various engineering circles, I'll keep trolling them and being just as hyperbolic in the inverse because it amuses me. Don't take things too seriously on the internet; you'll have a bad time ;)

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