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Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

anthropic.com

901–910 of 1001 posts

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#901

Google, OpenAI Employees Voice Support for Anthropic in Open Letter. We Will Not Be Divided https://notdivided.org/ ----- The Department of War is threatening to - Invoke the Defense Production Act to force Anthropic to serve their model to the military and "tailor its model to the military's needs" - Label the company a "supply chain risk" All in retaliation for Anthropic sticking to their red lines to not allow the…

Call me cynical, but given that Google is a publicly traded company and OpenAI having a trillion in spending commitments, I’m skeptical whether the leadership of those companies feel the same as their employees.

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Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#902
post #833

I don't trust the statement of Anthropic too much. In the past they have done things like - https://the-decoder.com/anthropics-head-of-safeguards-resear... - https://the-decoder.com/anthropics-ceo-admits-compromising-w... (see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651971 , https://futurism.com/leaked-messages-ceo-anthropic-dictators ) - https://the-decoder.com/anthropic-ceo-dario-amodei-backs-pre...

I read the articles. As far as factual reporting, I will tentatively take them at face value. But in terms of their editorializing, it is frankly weak by my standards. It would not survive scrutiny in a freshman philosophy class.

Ethics is complicated. I’m not saying this means it can’t be reasoned about and discussed. It can! But the sources you’ve cited have shown themselves to be rather shallow.

I encourage everyone to write out your ethical model and put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would weigh the factors.

There is no free lunch. For many practical decisions with high stakes, many reasonable decisions from one POV could be argued against from another. It is the synthesis that matters the most. Among those articles, I don’t see great minds doing their best work. (The constraints of their medium and funding model are a big problem I think.)

Read Brian Christian’s “The Alignment Problem”’s take on predictive policing if you want a specific example of what I mean. There are actually mathematical impossibilities at play when it comes to common sense, ethical reasoning.

Common sense ethical reasoning has never been very good at new or complicated situations. “Common sense” at its worst is often a rhetorical technique used to shut down careful thinking. At its best, it can drive us to pay attention to our conscience and to synthesize.

I suggest finding better discussions and/or allocating the time yourself to think through it. My preferred sources for AI and ethics discussions are highly curated. I don’t “trust” any of them absolutely. * They are all grist for the mill.

I get better grist from LessWrong than HN 99% of the time. I discuss here to make sure I have a sense of what more “mainstream” people are discussing. HN lags the quality of LW — and will probably never catch up — but it does move in that direction usually over time. I’m not criticizing individuals here; I’m commenting on culture.

Please don’t confuse what I’m saying as pure subjectivity. One could conduct scientific experiments about the quality of discussions of a particular forum in many senses. Which places are drawing upon better information? Which are synthesizing it more carefully? Which drill down into detail? Which participants have allocated more to think clearly? Which strive to make predictions? Which prioritize hot takes? Which prioritize mutual understanding?

It isn’t even close.

Opinions and the Overton window are moving pretty rapidly, compared to even one year ago.

* I’ve written several comments about viewing trust as a triple (who, what, why). This isn’t my idea: I stole it.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#903

I used to work at Anthropic, and I wrote a comment on a thread earlier this week about the RSP update [1]. It's enheartening to see that leaders at Anthropic are willing to risk losing their seat at the table to be guided by values. Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are, even if the company is pragmatic about achieving their goals. I have strong signal th…

The world running on a few powerful mens ideals is a problem in itself.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#904

All of these problems are downstream of the Congress having thoroughly abdicated its powers to the executive. The military should be reigned in at the legislative level, by constraining what it can and cannot do under law. Popular action is the only way to make that happen. Energy directed anywhere else is a waste. Private corporations should never be allowed to dictate how the military acts. Such a thought would be…

> The technology can just be requisitioned During a war with national mobilization, that would make sense. Or in a country like China. This kind of coercion is not an expected part of democratic rule.

Makes me think of Operation Paperclip [1]. It happened after the war though, and its not China, but I think it helps your point!

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#905
post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is a strong arm by the governemnt to allow any use It’s a flippant move by Hegseth. I doubt anyone at the Pentagon is pushing for this. I doubt Trump is more than cursorily aware. Maybe Miller got in the idiot’s ear, who knows.

Trump/Miller/whomever don't need to be actively involved in every decision. They have defined an approach to strong arm problem solving and weaponisation of the government that anyone that works for them is implicitly allowed to use. The supposed controls that were meant to prevent this have crumbled or aligned.

> They have defined an approach to strong arm problem solving and weaponisation of the government that anyone that works for them is implicitly allowed to use

And one of the few constraints in their approach is not to fuck with the Dow. Expropriating Anthropic’s IP would trash the AI sector, and by extension, the Dow. (Even designating it a supply-chain risk sets a material precedent that a future administration could use against OpenAI and xAI.)

Hegseth is bluffing on his most destructive fronts, even if he doesn’t know it.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#906
post #178
post #24

As a "foreign national", what's the deal with making the distinction between domestic mass surveillance and foreign mass surveillance? Are there no democracies aside from the US? Don't we know since Snowden that if the US wants to do domestic surveillance they'll just ask GCHQ to share their "foreign" surveillance capabilities?

The reality is that the US Constitution only offers strong guarantees to citizens and (some of) the people in the US. Foreigners are excluded and foreign mass surveillance is or will happen. I believe every country (or block) should carve an independent path when it comes to AI training, data retention and inference. That is makes most sense, will minimize conflicts and put people in control of their destiny.

I believe every person should do that. LLMs should be free and run locally on our machines with no silly restrictions.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#907
post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how driven by ideals many folks at $Corporatron are Well let's see... it says in the post: * worked proactively to deploy our models to the Department of War and the intelligence community. * the first frontier AI company to deploy our models in the US government’s classified networks, * the first to deploy them at the National Laboratories, and * the first to provide custom models for national security customers.…

They didn't claim to have pacifist ideals In fact, they claim to be pro America and pro democracy and have repeatedly expressed concerns about autocratically governed countries. Just because you disagree with their ideals doesn't mean they're not holding to theirs

They sound exactly like George Bush and every other American leader who's claimed high minded ideals while they engage in interventions in direct contradiction to those ideals around the world

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#908

I used to work at Anthropic, and I wrote a comment on a thread earlier this week about the RSP update [1]. It's enheartening to see that leaders at Anthropic are willing to risk losing their seat at the table to be guided by values. Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are, even if the company is pragmatic about achieving their goals. I have strong signal th…

you're suffering from Stockholm syndrome

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#909
post #884
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are After 20 years of everyone in this industry saying "we want to make the world a better place" and doing the opposite, the problem here is not really related to people's "understanding". And before the default answer kicks in: this is not cynicism. Plenty of folks here on HN and elsewhere legitimately believe that it…

> everyone in this industry So in the last 20 years there is nothing good coming out of the software industry (if this is the industry you mention) ? I find it somehow ironic, because this type of generalization is for me the same issue that some of the people saying "they want to make a better place" have: accept reality is complex. There were huge benefits for society from the software industry in the last 20 years…

Everyone in this industry making a certain bullshit claim. I did qualify my statement. Don’t cut my words to make a strawman.

Additionally I state in the end that I do believe it’s possible.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#910
his dilemma wasn't moral. he has none. it was a marketing snafu. he marketed anthropic as different when the cost of claiming that was zero. now there's a cost, and he immediately changes his tune. his statement was essentially "why refrain from building killing machines when no one else is refraining? why limit ourselves unilaterally?" duley proves he never had morals in the first place.
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