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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#901

Post by jeromechoo »

stubish wrote: post #713

I don't see an alternative to Visa and Mastercard being discussed in the article. I just see ways of making bank transfers easier. Banks generally don't provide ways to dispute transactions, which is why fraudsters generally use bank transfer mechanisms. Once your money leaves your account, it is possibly gone, and once it leaves the country it is definitely gone. Banks here are now inserting delays on transfers in a…

This is an American-centric POV. I can’t speak for Europe but in many parts of Asia payments are most commonly done as a transfer of digital cash rather than credit. Whether it’s “consumer friendly” is not particularly relevant. People already accept it as a way to transact and there’s very little reason to switch to credit cards.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#902

Post by marcosdumay »

carlosjobim wrote: post #821
pimterry wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Breakup” seems a bit exaggerated considering the % of payment volume which might switch to the new system. Brazil introduced Pix in 2019, it's now the most used payment method for all transactions nationwide, ahead of both cards & cash. India introduced UPI in 2016, it now handles >80% of digital payments there, and handles more transactions a day than Visa does worldwide . It's totally plausible to me that a simi…

> Brazil introduced Pix in 2019, it's now the most used payment method for all transactions nationwide, ahead of both cards & cash. Is that by volume of transactions or total amount, or both? Cash transactions can of course only be estimated for this statement.

It took over cash in 2024 by number of transactions. And yes, cash is estimated.

I imagine bank transfers are still the largest payment method by value. Pix is taking over bank transfers, but companies have very few reasons to migrate.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#903

Post by ericmay »

Hikikomori wrote: post #735
ericmay wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans with the means to travel also have access to credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate. There's still an ongoing trick that some European businesses do where they'll try and get you to pay in dollars because they can arbitrarily set the exchange rate. It's obviously within "reason" but on the higher end for no purpose other tha…

There's also ATMs from Euronet that are conveniently placed in tourist areas that refuses to pay out Euro if you have a Euro card, you can only get money if you do an exchange and they do a 15% or so on top of a fixed rate. Also do things like charge for checking balance on account and don't tell you about before its done. Its an American company.

> Its an American company.

Thankfully though a lot of times these ATMs and such are avoided by American tourists because....we just use a credit card.

By the way, those fees are split with other folks. For example you might find that American Euronext ATM in a shopping plaza or outside of a storefront. Those European businesses are getting a cut of that exchange rate.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#904

Post by HunOL »

wraptile wrote: post #840
HunOL wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law. Is Wero really a success? According to this article, in 2024 it processed over €7.5 billion. Polish BLIK, which is not even mentioned in the article and which has joined the EuroPA Alliance, processed €83 billion in 2024, with a 30% y/y increase in H1 2025. I understand that BLIK is much older, but it invested significant effort and money in marketing and promotion…

> Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law Isn't that like the entire purpose of government and law - to help citizens come to a consensus?

No, in most of the cases government should not be the parent, but external arbiter.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#905

Post by marcosdumay »

tzs wrote: post #94

I wonder if this will draw tariff threats? Last August US threatened tariffs on Brazil over their Pix system. One of the reasons given was that people using Pix instead of credit cards deprived Visa and Mastercard of fees.

> Last August US threatened tariffs on Brazil over their Pix system.

Just a correction: the US imposed those tariffs. Threatened too, I guess, but the Orange Man did more than that.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#907

Post by Sharparam »

Freak_NL wrote: post #734
jonathanlydall wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? In South Africa where I live, anywhere that accepts cards accepts Visa and Mastercard. Outside of the "informal business" sector (e.g. tiny "businesses" like a roadside stall), card acceptance is so ubiquitous I don't carry cash anymore and it's very rarely an issue.

> Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? Because this is a thing in most of Europe. Most people don't own a creditcard, and those that do use it mostly for online purchases outside of the EU. I don't travel to another continent without looking up how to pay for things when I get there.

This is definitely not a thing in most of Europe.

Netherlands' anti-credit card stance is quite unique, perhaps only matched by Germany and their obsession with cash.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#908

Post by nunoonun »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

The Portuguese alternative "MB Way" has small NFC tags that can be tied to your account and used instead of the phone. You still need to register it in the phone. But it's a small step in the right direction.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#909

Post by Sharparam »

ksimukka wrote: post #874
tokai wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Vipps (rest of Scandinavia) This is wrong.

Vipps MobilePay is in Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Sweden. That is almost all Nordic countries, and all of Scandinavia.

Caveat that Vipps support in Sweden is severely lacking compared to the other countries where it's the main system in use.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#910

Post by Sharparam »

glenneroo wrote: post #113
mentalgear wrote: post #35

Would be nice of the EU to provide a digital payment service quasi free of charge - without commercial provider's typical predatory fees and other costs. And don't counter with "privacy" .. it's not like all the American companies already have to provide backend access to their data to the NSA and other 3 letter agencies.

Uhm, the EU already has free instant SEPA transfers? I use it regularly, sadly not all EU banks support it (smaller ones sometimes have issues and have to resort to standard oldschool 2-day transfer, but they are also free).

The Eurozone has free instant SEPA transfers*

Non-Euro countries won't be guaranteed to have it until July 2027.

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