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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#901

Post by peppersghost93 »

Amezarak wrote: post #840
infecto wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we are talking about different things. AWD is a $4k upgrade on a transit. 4wd buys you nothing and at that point it’s more about the tires. Even in cold parts of the US your hvac or plumber is going to be using something like a transit. Very few trade jobs opt for a truck. They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed. Sure landscaping crews can utilize trucks but even then, your m…

> They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed. I've never seen or known a trademan that drove a van. They all drive pickups. Maybe this is a regional thing.

That's strange. All the plumbers and HVAC guys in my area seem to drive vans.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#902

Post by thatsit »

mdavid626 wrote: post #760
tzs wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other day I drove 700km in just about 5.5 hours (German Autobahn). Few stops to pee. With EV that would be few hours more (!) If you got an EV with fast charging (and there were fast chargers on your route) it would actually be under 20 minutes more. For example Ioniq 5 has a range of ~480 km. Let's say you started at 100% and drive down to 10%. That gets you 430 km, so 270 km left to go. At a 350 kW charger th…

That’s actually pretty cool. But “price and range/charging speed” still applies. I can’t afford an expensive EV with fast charging, but I can afford a cheap ICE. I get it that in US people buy 100k cars as there is no tomorrow. But not everywhere it’s like that. For 10k one can get a decent ICE. Can you get fast charging used EV for 10k?

We are slowly getting there, the used EV market takes time to build up a stockpile of good and fast charging cars. Also for total cost of driving you need to factor in cheaper charging than fueling on average, lower maintenance and maybe reduced (road) taxes depending on the country.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#904

Post by parineum »

arcticbull wrote: post #893
parineum wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge 25% use it for towing. 30% use it off road. 65% use it for hauling. Obviously there's overlap but how many people do none of those three? It's less than 35% which is not a majority.

one time a year or less was the suffix for each of these, many more people fall into the once a month or so category. The economical thing to do is buy a civic and rent a truck the one time a year you use it for truck things.

How many people driving a civic never have someone in the back seat?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#905

Post by saalweachter »

pbmonster wrote: post #778
BizarroLand wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 3 vehicles, an old project jeep, an old truck, and a sedan. Sedan handles 99% of my driving, but can't really tow anything. Truck handles all of my towing stuff, but gets ~14mpg which hurts so I don't drive it. Jeep is a jeep, it's always being worked on, but when I use it I'm using it to go ride around on dirt paths or for camping. It gets 17-20mpg when I'm driving it but I don't want to drive it often. If th…

> I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move. Why? 1500 lbs rated tow hook on an average sedan should be no problem at all. And that's more than enough for a 4x6 with a couch and a couple of boxes. Might even get a slightly larger trailer so you don't have to take the couch apart. I've to…

I bought a used "regular" F-150 with an 8-foot bed about the last year that made sense, and when the frame finally rusted out and it could no longer pass inspection, the prices of used trucks was insane, and most of what was available was a lot of luxuries I didn't want to pay for.[0]

So I replaced it with a 5x8 trailer, which anymore gets pulled behind a Chevy Volt. I'd hesitate to load it to the max and take it on the thruway, but for most of my tasks it's actually more convenient than the truck. Loading up a riding lawn mower or a few hundred pounds of scrap metal is way easier with it being closer to the ground, and I'm mostly driving 10-15 miles over back roads so if I'm worried the load is too heavy for the compact car I don't mind taking it a little slow.

Also, it's convenient to load it while it's unhooked, piling in garbage and debris over a week or a weekend and then hooking it up to run to the dump; likewise, just unhooking the trailer full of construction materials and (weather permitting) just unloading it as you build.

I occasionally miss being able to drive it into the woods, but to be honest not being able to parallel park the trailer is a bigger inconvenience than not being able to off-road it.

[0] Since having kids I've come around on the second-row-of-seats/short bed trade-off; not being able to pick up dimensional lumber with kids in tow is way more limiting in my current phase of life than not being able to fit it in the bed with the tailgate up.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#906

Post by eulers_secret »

pseudosavant wrote: post #494
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

That be easier to believe if there weren't so many Model 3 and Y vehicles that are clearly the new ones (changed headlights/taillights) all around. I'm sure Elon's "political" salutes gave their sales some headwinds, but I'm inclined to think it is more like 15% less sales (Q4 2024 vs Q4 2025). The CyberTruck factory is operating at The biggest problems are: it costs ~2x what Elon said it would, it has less than half…

I know this is a dead thread, but...

How do so many people justify buying the new redesign? I mean it came out after the CEO went in front of the world and gave two nazi-like salutes, then did DOGE!

Do they buy his 'autistic' defense? Do they just not care about what the CEO does and support him with their money anyways? Do they actively support his ideology?

I suspect it's likely a mix of these depending on the person, and probably more that I can't think of.

I mean they're good cars, no doubt, and it's a damn shame many decent engineers and workers put in so much effort to have it all tainted by such nasty politics.

But I cannot ignore those salutes, nor the myriad other slights starting with calling those Thai cave-diving heroes pedophiles. Tesla is dead to me, a victim of this insane time and its CEO.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#907

Post by thatsit »

epolanski wrote: post #798
iknowstuff wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~40% of global car sales are EV.

25% in 2025. Of those, the overwhelming majority in China. If you take it out of the equation it's around 10%. EV sales have fallen YoY in North America.

Sales fell 4% in North America last year. EV share is more like 20% globally and seeing a YoY increase every year for at least 10 years now.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#908

Post by rootusrootus »

pbmonster wrote: post #790
rootusrootus wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're really killing it. The Lightning EREV is next, and my bet is it's almost identical to the BEV version but with an engine where the big beautiful frunk is now. Gives them something to sell the people who think they need big range numbers, but also gives them an easy path back to a full BEV. I kind of expect them to backpedal on the full cancelation and make both vehicles.

> my bet is it's almost identical to the BEV version but with an engine where the big beautiful frunk is now Would be interesting how small and how cheap you can design a ~50kW genset to be (any smaller and you don't gain that highly coveted towing range). I don't think it's an easy task, you still need to integrate the crash compliant fuel tank, the emissions compliant exhaust system, water cooling for the engine, e…

> It's a pretty long BOM you're adding to an already expensive BEV, so you don't really have thousands of dollars of budget to add to the production cost.

Agreed. And I don't think it will be cheaper. The Lightning was already selling for less than the comparable ICE equivalent, there is no way they will sell the Lightning EREV at the same price point after adding a generator along with the associated supporting parts. I bet it will be at least 10K more, and I won't be shocked if it's closer to 20K.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#910

Post by NoLinkToMe »

morshu9001 wrote: post #698
m463 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've had conversations with ice owners and the misconceptions are enormous in their minds. Practically speaking¹, normal people could buy a tesla and drive it like a gas car, except with a full tank of gas every morning. They could still drive across the state once a month to grandma's and they could supercharge if range got low. This is due to a couple things that were not in place for early EVs. - teslas have…

It's not 99% of the time, it's for people who own single-family homes. Apartment dwellers maaaybe have EV spots but can't leave their cars there.

I think OP has it right.

Tesla with lowest range has 430km, highest range 650. Let's average it to 500km.

The average American driver drives 60km per day. In other words you need to charge less than every 8 days.

You can charge to 80% in about 20-30 minutes.

In other words if you find yourself near a charge (easy) for 20-30 minutes a week (easy), then on average there is no range issue.

You're either in a rural area in a single-family home with home charging, or in low-density urban area with single family home charging, or in a dense urban area with lots of public charging. Very few sit outside these three categories that don't enable them home charging or 20-30 minutes a week public charging.

And that's only going one direction. The number of fastchargers 10x'd in ten years, the range of the model S grew by 50% in the last 15 years, the charging speeds roughly tripled. Sufficient charging infrastructure seems like a solved problem, resolving it is a matter of a mere operational roll-out everywhere rather than a political/technical/economical challenge, a matter of when, not if, and a matter of increasingly smaller pockets of the country that are yet to be fully connected. (whether it's 1% or some other small percentage, range shouldn't be a driving factor for tesla sales anymore).

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