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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#901

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #795
tankenmate wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But you're basically arguing for not criticizing the status quo.", but that wasn't what was argued ("You should be able to insult and criticise the Prime Minister."), but more your interpretation of what was said. You're making a strawman argument.

Well, the PM isn't exactly the status quo, I wasn't replying to that. Rather, I was responding to this specific bit, emphasis mine: > You should not be able to gain a position of power and then go on a crowded stage to claim that vaccines cause autism. This is intolerable. We are attacking the foundations of society. Not sure when the strawman is. "The foundations of society", for me, means "the way things are". Whic…

To be really honest, I share a similar stance to you overall but I would still admit that there is some partial truth to it

I would like to expand this not only to foreign state actors that people mention but also companies inside which are actively trying to do nefarious stuff

As an example, Tobacco industry knew that the damages were there but they still tried to spur up medical confusion around it all so that people would still think that medical discussion is going on when it was 100% clear that tobacco harms. Who knows how many people died

The man who discovered that washing hands saved lives was so ridiculed and I think met with hostility because doctors couldn't comprehend the idea that it was they would could spread diseases. This is decades before germ theory was invented

His name is Ignaz Semmelweis and the world was unjust to him. Doctors ridiculed and threatend him and he was labelled obsessive and doctors called it mere coincidence. His career crumbled as he was forced out of vienna/his hospital and his mental health deteriorated as his warnings were ignored

in 1865 Semmelwise was commited to an asylum where he died just two weeks later at age 47

Only after pasteur developed germ theory and lester pioneered antisceptic surgery, semmelwise was finally vindicated.

This simple practise of handwashing is now considered the most basic medical standard worldwide saving countless millions of lives in the process.

(I had to write it by hand here basically transcribing this really amazing video that I watched about such a topic, I would highly suggest watching it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBCOh1SYQYA (crazy people who were proven right)

Semmelwise's stories can brings chills to spine.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#902

Post by joebe89 »

saubeidl wrote: post #839
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

Because freedom of speech was always a misguided creed at best. The speech of the manipulator is not the same as the speech of the expert and they shouldn't be given the same treatment, lest you want psychological warfare waged on your nation. American free speech extremists like these tech CEOs are either willing patsies or useful idiots in the hybrid warfare against Europe.

These tech CEOs just want to have to spend as little as possible to maintain their platforms. They don't actually care about freedom of speech beyond that.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#903

Post by [deleted] »

dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#904

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Nextgrid wrote: post #813
miki123211 wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments just can't come to grips with how much money software engineers make. Paying a contractor $x million? Yeah no problem, projects are projects, they cost what they cost. Does that $x million pay for 5x fewer people than it would in construction or road repair? We don't know, we don't care, this is the best bid we got for the requirements, and in line with what similar IT projects cost us before. Paying a ju…

Not just governments, that same kind of greed exists in private companies too. The only way to make good money while being an employee is to have your buddy spin up a "vendor" offering overpriced bullshit and shill it within your company. In exchange, you also spin up a "vendor" and your buddy shills it at his company.

This might explain why there are sooooooooo many vps providers/cloud providers, this might be one valid reason as to why.

I am sure that this might not be the only reason but still, its a valid reason for many. Do you know of companies/people which do this and how widespread this practise is?

To me it still feels like malicious compliance tho for what its worth.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#905

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

torginus wrote: post #708
enricotal wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also another Italian here. For context, the "Piracy Shield" mentioned in the order is basically a legislative hacksaw authorized by the regulator (AGCOM) primarily to protect Serie A football rights. Soccer rules Italy more than the Vatican.. It’s a mess technically: it mandates ISPs and DNS providers to block IPs/domains within 30 minutes of a report, with zero judicial oversight. It’s infamous locally for false pos…

I don't get how censorship of this kind is even technically feasible? I can rent a vpn on AWS, then connect to a stream hosted in Kazakhstan. You can't take down a website there, and you certainly can't rangeban AWS ips.

Can they not block your AWS account though?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#906

Post by bakies »

asgeesg wrote: post #558
bakies wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_banning_in_the_United_Sta... > Participants: Republican lawmakers in red states oh weird, it's the opposite of what you said.

[dead]

That's privilege. They're not available at the library at the learning centers.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#907

Post by bluescrn »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #751
dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

WTF? How are you attacked by russian accounts? This childish notion of thinking that only "true" thoughts are allowed under free speech, and the rest must be eradicated needs to die. If you don't like the risk of russian accounts, don't follow them, and follow accounts that you like. It's as easy as that. You have news, government news sites, journalists, newspapers, it's never been easier to find sources to trust an…

Note that it's always a claim of Russian (or maybe Chinese) propaganda. Never middle-eastern propaganda.

The level of radicalisation over Israel/Gaza really doesn't look organic, when compared to the reaction to other conflicts.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#908

Post by randomNumber7 »

bambax wrote: post #881
dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

Not just Russia and China. Musk does Nazi salutes and Grok promotes pedophilia. Trump invades countries and talks about taking over Greenland, which is part of Europe. The US are no less of a threat than Russia. Contrary to widespread belief, Europe has the means to fight those threats. It just chooses not to, for reasons I don't understand.

Most europeans are completely delusional.

Look at germany for example (where I'm from). Shutting down nuclear power plants and coal at the same time.

More than 50% of people here still tell you this is necessary to save the planet - even though what we save is so little globally, that it does nothing relevant to stop global warming.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#909

Post by oytis »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #773
oytis wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive branch is supposed to deal with other countries' laws and courts? Does it also hold for European executive branches and American laws? I don't want to even imagine a world that works like this.

> Does it also hold for European executive branches and American laws? Yes, if a US law is overreaching and directly impacting people in the EU. That is literally how the world works in practice so I'm not sure what to tell you.

CLOUD act is overreaching and impacting people in the EU. What EU governments are doing is avoiding US-based cloud services for critical applications, because it's an US law, not a European one

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#910

Post by drysine »

saubeidl wrote: post #857
abc123abc123 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF? How are you attacked by russian accounts? This childish notion of thinking that only "true" thoughts are allowed under free speech, and the rest must be eradicated needs to die. If you don't like the risk of russian accounts, don't follow them, and follow accounts that you like. It's as easy as that. You have news, government news sites, journalists, newspapers, it's never been easier to find sources to trust an…

I don't like the risk of the mouth-breather next door reading Russian propaganda, it's not myself I'm concerned about. In a democracy, most people are unfortunately stupid and easily manipulable. We can't let the Russians (or the Americans!) use them as their proxy.

So you want to censor what other people read? I don't think your neighbor would appreciate such patronizing attitude.
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