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Everyone in Seattle hates AI

jonready.com

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Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#901

Post by stickfigure »

mlavrent wrote: post #819

I was at Microsoft until July of this year until I left for an SF-based company (not AI though). The difference between the two with regards to AI tool usage couldn’t be more different- at Microsoft, they had started penalizing you in perf if you didn’t use the AI tools, which often were under par and you didn’t have a choice in. At the new place, perf doesn’t care if you use AI or not- just what you actually deliver…

Microsoft is forcing the company to dogfood their own tools. They do this because they need the feedback so they can improve their tools, and they think these tools are a critical part of their future.

Presumably your new company isn't building AI tools, so they don't care what you use.

Imagine a developer in 1990s Microsoft saying "I want to use Borland C++ because it's better than the Microsoft IDE". Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that's not the point.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#902

Post by r0m4n0 »

latexr wrote: post #793
r0m4n0 wrote: post #404

I feel like there is an absurd amount of negative rhetoric about how AI doesn't have any real world use cases in this comment thread. I do believe that the product leadership is shoehorning it into every nook and cranny of the world right now and there are reasons to be annoyed by that but there are also countless incredible use cases that are mind blowing, that you can use it every day for. I need to write about som…

> I feel like there is an absurd amount of negative rhetoric about how AI doesn't have any real world use cases in this comment thread. What I feel is people are denouncing the problems and describing them as not being worth the tradeoff, not necessarily saying it has zero use cases. On the other end of the spectrum we have claims such as: > countless incredible use cases that are mind blowing, that you can use it ev…

Yea I do think you make a lot of valid points about the tradeoffs of the advances. I think anything we do to progress humanity technologically will have negative outcomes on everything else. I think as humans make things better for ourselves it will almost always rely on destroying something in nature in return. The capitalistic world we live in will almost always drive that to the extreme quickly.

As for the other points, are the LLMs wrong sometimes, yes. But so are humans so it's not really a novel thing to point out. The question is, are they more correct than humans? I have seen they can be more accurate, less biased, etc... and we are driving toward higher accuracy and other ways to make them right.

And the fix later attitude is not great toward everything and I was referring to the accuracy issues that people often point out as why AI is hype. The things you mention are side effects and those should be controlled because the cat is out of the bag. You can spend your time yelling at the clouds or try to do something to make it better. I assure you, capitalism is a tough enemy. This is no different than another type of combustable engine that was created that has negative consequences on the environment in different ways.

I'm not disagreeing with you... mostly just saying: the hype is warranted

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#903

Post by Capricorn2481 »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #586
r0m4n0 wrote: post #404

I feel like there is an absurd amount of negative rhetoric about how AI doesn't have any real world use cases in this comment thread. I do believe that the product leadership is shoehorning it into every nook and cranny of the world right now and there are reasons to be annoyed by that but there are also countless incredible use cases that are mind blowing, that you can use it every day for. I need to write about som…

> I feel like there is an absurd amount of negative rhetoric about how AI doesn't have any real world use cases in this comment thread Yep. I feel like actually, being negative on AI is the common view now, even though every other HN commenter thinks they’re the only contrarian in the world to see the light and surely the masses must be misguided for not seeing it their way. The same way people love to think they’re…

> I feel like actually, being negative on AI is the common view now, even though every other HN commenter thinks they’re the only contrarian in the world to see the light and surely the masses must be misguided for not seeing it their way

I have mostly seen people on HN criticizing the few people in tech who have attached themselves to the hype and senselessly push it everywhere, not "the masses." The masses don't particularly like AI. It seems like it's only people hyping it that think everyone but Luddites are into it.

You're both painting a narrative that anti-AI sentiment is a popular bandwagon everyone is doing to be cool, as well as not that big actually and everyone is loving AI. Which is it?

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#904

Post by code_for_monkey »

hatefulheart wrote: post #777
p0w3n3d wrote: post #752

Someone wrote on HN the (IMO) main reason why people do not accept AI. AI is about centralisation of power So basically, only a few companies that hold on the large models will have all the knowledge required to do things, and will lend you your computer collecting monthly fees. Also see https://be-clippy.com/ for more arguments (like Adobe moving to cloud to teach their model on your work). For me AI is just a natur…

Sorry but your SQL comparison is way off. SQL is deterministic, has a defined implementation that databases must follow and when you run a statement it presents a query plan. This is the absolute opposite to using an LLM. Please stop using this comparison and perhaps look for others, like for example, a randomised search engine.

hear me out though: What if every time you used an sql query it made a bunch of stuff up? 80% of the time its what you want but sometimes it just imagines data and pulls it out of its butt

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#906

Post by rtp4me »

habinero wrote: post #900
rtp4me wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I must be using very different versions of Claude. As an infra/systems guy (non-coder), the ability for me to develop some powerful tools simply by leveraging Claude has been nothing short of amazing. I started using Claude about 8 months ago and have since created about 20 tools ranging from simple USB detection scripts (for secure erasing SSDs) to complex tools like an Azure File Manager and a production-re…

Yeah. You're not a coder, so you don't have the expertise to see the pitfalls and problems with the approach. If you want to use concrete to anchor some poles in the ground, great. Build that gazebo. If it falls down, oh well. If you want to use concrete to make a building that needs to be safe and maintained, it's critical that you use the right concrete mix, use rebar in the right way, and seal it properly. Civil e…

Sorry, carefully read the comments on this thread and you will quickly realize "real" coders are very much threatened by this technology - especially junior coders. They are frightened their job is at stake by a new tool and take a very anti-AI view to the entire domain - probably more-so for those who live in areas where the wages are not high to begin with. People who come from a different perspective truly see the value of what these tools can help you do. To say all AI output is slop or garbage is just wrong.

The flip of this is to understand and appreciate what the new tooling can help you do and adopt. Sure, junior coders will face significant headwinds, but I guarantee you there are opportunities waiting to get uncovered. Just give it a couple of years...

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#907

Post by AshleyGrant »

mips_avatar wrote: post #32
exmadscientist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reads like it's AI-edited, which is deliciously ironic. (Protip: if you're going to use em—dashes—everywhere, either learn to use them appropriately, or be prepared to be blasted for AI—ification of your writing.)

My creative writing teacher in college drilled the m dash into me. I can’t really write without them now

I've been using em-dashes for at least two decades now.. At least I have in Word, where it's been autocorrecting regular dashes to em-dashes since at least Word 2007.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#909

Post by kevin948 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #866
kevin948 wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been exactly my mindset as well (another Seattle SWE/DS). The baseline capability has been improving and compounding, not getting worse. It'd actually be quite convenient if AI's capabilities stayed exactly where they are now; the real problems come if AI does work. I'm extremely skeptical of the argument that this will end up creating jobs just like other technological advances did. I'm sure that will happe…

> I'm extremely skeptical of the argument that this will end up creating jobs just like other technological advances did. I'm sure that will happen around the edges, but this is the first time thinking itself is being commodified, even if it's rudimentary in its current state. It feels very different from automating physical labor: most folks don't dream of working on an assembly line. Most people do not dream of wor…

The important piece here is that many people want to contribute to something intellectually, and a huge pathway for that is at risk of being significantly eroded. Permanently.

Your point stands that many people like physical labor. Whether they want to artisanally craft something, or desire being outside/doing physical or even menial labor more than sitting in an office. True, but that doesn't solve the above issue, just like it didn't in reverse. Telling miners to learn to code was... not great. And from my perspective neither is outsourcing our thinking en masse to AI.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#910

Post by senordevnyc »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #437
senordevnyc wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously. Turns out experience can be self-limiting in the face of paradigm-shifting innovation. In hindsight it makes sense, I’m sure every major shift has played out the same way.

> Turns out experience can be self-limiting in the face of paradigm-shifting innovation. It also turns out that experience can be what enables you to not waste time on trendy stuff which will never deliver on its promises. You are simply assuming that AI is a paradigm shift rather than a waste of time. Fine, but at least have the humility to acknowledge that reasonable people can disagree on this point instead of lab…

I'm not assuming anything, I'm relying on my own experience of being an engineer for two decades and building stuff for all kinds of organizations in all kinds of stacks and languages. AI has radically increased my velocity and quality, though it's got a steep learning curve of its own, and many frustrations to deal with. But it's pretty obviously a paradigm shift, and not "trendy stuff which will never deliver on its promises". Even if the current LLMs never improve at all from here, they're still incredibly useful tools.
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