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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#901
post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think countries with even the most coveted universal healthcare just approve everything blindly? Should everyone (anyone?) receive monoclonal antibodies, gene therapies, biologic medications? What criteria should be used to make these determinations?

> Do you think countries with even the most coveted universal healthcare just approve everything blindly? Yes. Everything that they are trained and able to do here, is covered by the national insurance, at least where I live. We never even have to explicitly ask them to approve anything, it's all automatic. You don't see the bill. You might have to pay the difference for "nonessential upgrades", like a plastic cast i…

> You might have to pay the difference for "nonessential upgrades"

This is exactly what happens in the US. It's just that in your case the nonessential upgrade is a $5 cast. Sometimes the nonessential upgrade is an expensive surgery. My grandfather had heart surgery at 86 shortly before he died. My relatives went to 3 surgeons who all refused to perform surgery on the grounds that he was too old and frail for the procedure. Then they went to a fourth who agreed to perform it. The first three doctors were right, and he died a few months later. The insurance company quite correctly denied the claim and my family ended up fighting them over a bill for open heart surgery north of $50,000.

Your government wouldn't (and shouldn't) have paid for that surgery either. I think the real difference is that since you have a government system, that in your country that unnecessary surgery just never would have happened in the first place. I will admit this is a more efficient system, but it is no different in that there is a cost benefit analysis being done over what gets paid for and what doesn't whether you see it happening or not.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Routine stuff is never denied in the US either. I've never had one thing denied ever and I even have a weird condition that requires expensive testing to diagnose and even more expensive treatment (narcolepsy). The insurance companies will throw up annoying bureaucracy like prior authorizations, and made me switch medication to generic when it came out (reasonable) and then back from the generic to another brand name…

Never denied eh? Interesting. I had an MRI denied for a partial pectoral rupture. Which was a routine diagnostic as a precursor to open shoulder surgery to determine the extent and location of the rupture to figure out if surgery was absolutely necessary and to prep a viable surgical plan. I had to fight the insurance company with the assistance of both my surgical and non-surgical sports medicine doctors. The good n…

Gemini states that an ultrasound is just as good for diagnosis as an MRI and is much cheaper. Could it be that the denial was correct and the mistake was from your doctor ordering a less cost effective diagnostic test, not from the insurance company?

And from my personal experience with narcolepsy, AI is a much better doctor than most human doctors.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#903
post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USAians are not exactly famous for commonly speaking most European languages at a level that would allow them to resettle to the respective European countries. This makes for a considerable barrier that essentially doesn't exist in the opposite direction.

I have never heard this term before, but to clarify what I mean (it's so weird to bring race into this!): I have worked with dozens of native born dutch, german, french people etc. and lots of latin people etc. But I know almost very few that I grew up with, went to school with, who moved from the US to another country. I am not saying this is good, the US is good etc. I am saying you have to understand the revealed…

> I have never heard this term before,

> > In Spanish, the Diccionario panhispánico de dudas (English: Pan-Hispanic Dictionary of Doubts), published by the Royal Spanish Academy and the Association of Academies of the Spanish Language, recommends the genderless term estadounidense (literally United Statesian)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonyms_for_the_United_States

> , but to clarify what I mean

You’re restating your point while not responding to the point that OP brought up.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#904
post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should everyone (anyone?) receive monoclonal antibodies, gene therapies, biologic medications? What criteria should be used to make these determinations? Yes, if that's an indicated and effective treatment. Do you think people should just be left to die if they can't pony up the dough in the hospital? Oh, your card's declined, no oncology ward for you?

Where is the limit to how much money is expended on one person? What if they have a 99% likelihood of death, are unlimited funds expended in this case? What if there's a shortage on drugs - who should get the limited supply available? Which country with public health options pays for biologic medications or similar patient-tailored solutions?

> Where is the limit to how much money is expended on one person?

It depends on what would be an effective and indicated treatment.

> What if they have a 99% likelihood of death, are unlimited funds expended in this case?

Then treatment would neither be effective nor indicated. But if it was your parent, your child, your granny, wouldn't you rather they at least try?

> What if there's a shortage on drugs - who should get the limited supply available?

The people for whom treatment is most likely to be effective

> Which country with public health options pays for biologic medications or similar patient-tailored solutions?

The UK, for a start.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few of the sentences don't make sense to me. Who is "they" and "their" in the last two paragraphs?

Seems like GP is trying to refer to the child without reference to sex.

Bingo. It's not important.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net migration US/Ireland is positive to Ireland. UK numbers yes, though maybe gloomy weather plays a role? Just kidding. That said, Brits are slightly more likely to move to Spain than US despite it being a tiny country in comparison and not necessarily easier to move to after Brexit. Spain, not sure. It’s tricky to compare since non immigrant Spanish speaking population in US is probably significantly lower than Spa…

America has around 42 million fluent Spanish speakers (based on # that speak Spanish at home). Spain’s entire population is 48 million. I have never met an American that migrated to Spain.

Maybe you’re an exception but this place’s demographics probably does not have a wide Latino-American network compared to other demos.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#907

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

I was under the impression that if you were to go to an emergency room, life saving surgery would be scheduled regardless of who is paying (or not paying), due to EMTALA. I can't imagine a hospital waiting for an insurance company's approval to pay for a procedure to schedule a child's life saving surgery. Is this incorrect?

This wasn't an immediate ER situation, at least directly (yet). More of a if this procedure doesn't get done now, at some point in the relatively near future, there will be multiple ER situations, almost certainly multiple hospitalizations, and one of those might go past the point of no return.

And the insurance still played games. Like, it's in your best interest to pay once and get this situation resolved in a scheduled/controlled manner than wait for multiple emergency hospitalizations AND have to pay for this in an emergency situation...you're probably talking at least 2x cost if not more.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> University is expensive as fck. Health care is expensive as fck. University isn't near as big of a problem. That's not something the blindsides you like health care expenses. Nobody is making you spend $300k on university. Got my engineering degree at a public university for ~$100k in total and had it paid off 5 years after graduation. But a $195k hospital bill is something I'd never be prepared for. Nobody chooses…

For $100k, you could pay the tuition fees for 4-10 (depending on exact school choice) of the best universities in Europe outside the UK combined - and I'm talking of the foreign student fees, not the much lower tuitions that EU citizens get.

That's great, but you've missed my point. I get payed more in the US, so I can afford the extra cost for university. And once that university bill is paid, I can pocket the extra.

There are still reasons why high university costs can be a problem. Teachers, for example, don't get paid near enough to be able to cover university costs in a few years like I was able to. But becoming a teacher requires just as much investment.

But even then, the cost of college loans is far more manageable for even teachers than an unexpected $195k visit to the hospital. University cost is a problem in the US, but I don't think it's comparable to the problem we have with health care costs.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, where do you live that denies a child a life saving surgery just because insurance won't cover it? Because in the US there's laws against that.

> I'm curious, where do you live that denies a child a life saving surgery just because insurance won't cover it? Because in the US there's laws against that. Maybe I'm just too skeptical, but a) This is a very new account with exactly 1 other posting 3 months ago, and b) They don't refer to their child with any sort of gender. They even used slightly awkward sentence construction just to avoid gender. Few parents th…

I usually read Hacker News, not comment...this story just grabbed my attention because of my kid's situation and wanting to maybe give others hope fighting a similar battle.

You know, when you deal with the past 18 months where your kid has 6 hospitalizations due to illness, 2 minor surgeries, 3 major surgeries (this last one was spine related, others heart), countless appointments, multiple feeding tube feedings a day to sustain nutrition, nearly $2 million lifetime billed do insurance (as a 6 year old)...who the fuck cares about what gender I decide to write about or the reason I might not share it?

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#910

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

How comfortable are you with naming and shaming the company? I don't think things are going to change if we don't call this stuff out loudly and publicly. That's awful but I'm glad you were able to figure this out. I've had my own problems with insurance companies, but nothing to this level. I can't imagine the frustration, especially with YOUR CHILD'S HEALTH on the line. Five years back I ended up getting surgery fo…

It was Anthem Blue Cross.

You know, it is one thing if it is you or I as terrible as that is.

But this was a 6-year-old.

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