US High school students' scores fall in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#901

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #857

ToDougie wrote: post #819

After moving my kids out of a bad elementary school and into a fantastic district with a highly ranked school, the differences are obvious. The good school has smarter kids with better parents. The bad school had dull kids with bad parents. The kids at the new school do their homework, read, play outside. The kids at the old school skipped homework, played call of duty, and could hardly read. The new school has fun e…

In your discussion of "bad kids", it seems like there's a subtext you're not saying out loud.

[deleted]

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#902

Post by crazygringo » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #856

crazygringo wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your patronizing comment is unhelpful. My high school library certainly didn't do anything but lend books and store some AV equipment, and provide a computer/study space, and I already referred to keeping the space for those other purposes. If we wanted information or recommendations on books to read, that was definitely what our English teachers were for. The library wasn't helping with that.

Okay. You don't have to read about libraries if you don't want to. But you'll likely sound a bit more informed if you do. Your comment makes it sound like the only thing you think ALL libraries do is lend out media. Maybe you just had a crap library. Learning about a library's complete range of services is a decent idea and I encourage you to do so. If you don't want to read about it on the Wikipedia, I encourage you…

I know about reference libraries, government libraries, etc. -- believe me. I use them professionally.

It sounds like you had an exceptional high school library. On the other hand, my high school "librarians" knew how to check books out and shelve them when they were returned and that was pretty much it. And this was one of the best high schools in the area, one of only two that had AP classes.

So my original comment was questioning the utility of book lending in high school libraries specifically. And specifically asking if the focus shouldn't be on public libraries instead, where they do have the funding to hire actual real librarians and put together book collections that are actually decent.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#903

Post by giardini » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:12 PM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

Sounds like a reasonable decision to me: let the schools teach and let the city/county maintain the library separately.

But disassembling the library bookcases is hardly an appropriate woodworking project.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#904

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #833

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the white dude from Middletown with a law degree from Yale is personally familiar with systemic social depredation.

JD Vance famously grew up in poverty and chaos caused by his mother's chronic drug addiction and his father's having abandoned him when he was a toddler.

[deleted]

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#905

Post by bdcravens » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

nervousvarun wrote: post #881

bdcravens wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter suggested the old school was filled with bad kids and bad parents, and by definition, this would include the commenter and their kids. Unless they are suggesting they weren't the bad ones, and were somehow unfairly placed with the riff raff. If that's the case, some analysis of why that is seems in order.

From the commenter: "The good school has smarter kids with better parents. The bad school had dull kids with bad parents. The kids at the new school do their homework, read, play outside. The kids at the old school skipped homework, played call of duty, and could hardly read." That appears to be their observation of the two schools they had direct experience with. What else are you asking they provide here in terms o…

Yes, and performance is often correlated with property tax revenue. Low funds means less resources which influences the outcomes and behaviors of those kids. Put differently, "Anyways, the people make the place -- and that includes kids." is less true than the available resources make the place.

A reasonable analysis would be less of the anecdotal "evidence" about laziness, and more of the demographics of that particular district.

By "unfairly placed", it addresses what you quoted: "The bad school had dull kids with bad parents." Was the commenter one of those bad parents, since they were by definition in that category? Or are they suggesting they were one of the good parents that was in the wrong place? Or did they become good parents once they found a better school?

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#906

Post by rtaylorgarlock » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #903

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

Sounds like a reasonable decision to me: let the schools teach and let the city/county maintain the library separately. But disassembling the library bookcases is hardly an appropriate woodworking project.

I consider the 'freedom' felt in the library as a successful part of my growth in elementary and beyond, and I don't like moving that further away from the education environment--even though city/county libraries in my experience have been fantastic.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#907

Post by staticman2 » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:19 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #868

ainiriand wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not read that subtext, maybe is your own unconscious bias...

The commenter suggested the old school was filled with bad kids and bad parents, and by definition, this would include the commenter and their kids. Unless they are suggesting they weren't the bad ones, and were somehow unfairly placed with the riff raff. If that's the case, some analysis of why that is seems in order.

Of all the comments here in this 900 comment discussion, you thought that innocuous one had to be picked apart?

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#908

Post by bdcravens » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:20 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #907

bdcravens wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter suggested the old school was filled with bad kids and bad parents, and by definition, this would include the commenter and their kids. Unless they are suggesting they weren't the bad ones, and were somehow unfairly placed with the riff raff. If that's the case, some analysis of why that is seems in order.

Of all the comments here in this 900 comment discussion, you thought that innocuous one had to be picked apart?

"Anyways, the people make the place -- and that includes kids."

Yes, a post that attacks kids is one that seems ripe to be critical about. (To say nothing about the implicit logic that their kids must also have been part of the problem, which goes against the general premise of the comment)

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#909

Post by naet » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #903

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

Sounds like a reasonable decision to me: let the schools teach and let the city/county maintain the library separately. But disassembling the library bookcases is hardly an appropriate woodworking project.

Having a library on location at a school is valuable. You can do research, you can discover new books, you can have a quiet place to study... I have loved every school library I've ever been in.

Any library is a nexus of knowledge and learning. They should be in schools.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#910

Post by georgeecollins » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:24 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #903

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

Sounds like a reasonable decision to me: let the schools teach and let the city/county maintain the library separately. But disassembling the library bookcases is hardly an appropriate woodworking project.

Not to me! But then I think we should stop trying to think of K-12 education as a national issue because clearly there are regional differences and regional preferences. And I don't mean this as a red / blue thing-- there are places where the challenge is bilingual education and their are places where parents are uncomfortable with a non-christian education.

These challenges are more than a hundred years old! We have turned this into a national issue, made national standards and its not clear we are making that much progress. Many US states are effectively large countries. Why don't we let them decide what they want to do democratically. Whether you agree with it or not, it is what happens effectively. In the US you can move if you don't like where you live.