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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#901

Post by daft_pink »

Aachen wrote: post #848
daft_pink wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I go to McDonald’s and they play a recording every time asking me for an app code. Or I go to Petsmart and they give me all kinds of discounts for installing their app. Or Reddit barely works unless you install their stupid app. There is clearly some invasive behavior happening with apps on phones that doesn’t seem to happen on computers the companies are so insanely motivated to get you to install thei…

> The difference is I bought the device so I don’t care if you feel restricted as a developer. I don't see how that logically follows. I bought my device, too. How does that consequence developer-me not being allowed to make software? If you think I'm behind one of these obnoxious corporations, no sir the 180° opposite. I haven't made a mobile app in my life that I haven't also published the source code of, nor made…

I’ve installed Xcode. Pretty sure you can write anything and install it on your own device, the restrictions are on distribution.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#902

Post by nobody9999 »

amluto wrote: post #892
nobody9999 wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One way to address this might be to have a rule that third parties like Google cannot assert any sort of claim against an end user arising from that end user’s terms of service with the cafe. Or just require retail businesses to accept cash. Which many jurisdictions have done. Problem solved.

That doesn’t help if you need to use an app to order.

I don't know about you, but I don't have my device super-glued to my hand. In fact, if I'm going out to run errands in my neighborhood, I often don't bring such a device at all.

If I walk into a cafe (which is what GP was talking about), I'm going to (horror of horrors!) speak to the nice person standing behind the counter to ask them to make me my coffee.

I'm certainly not going to go full on passive aggressive and stand in front of the person taking orders and place my order on an "app."

In fact, if a retail establishment attempted to require that, I'd just leave.

Which I've done several times at restaurants who, when I ask for a menu, am informed that I should "scan the QR code" on a label stuck to the table with my phone to get the menu.

No thanks.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#903

Post by mixmastamyk »

wildredkraut wrote: post #843

Seems like >=2026 will be the year I'll start buying stuff again that has been replaced by mobile phones during all the years (Camera, Mp3Player, etc.) With this coming, buying a flagship mobile phone simply doesn't worth for me anymore. Currently i own a S24Ultra, my next mobile phone will probably be the cheapest Chinese crap I can get, just for the mobile things i "have" to use it.

I started the desmarting process two years ago with a new camera and protrek casio watch, no more BigTech Pay, etc.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#904

Post by mixmastamyk »

hedora wrote: post #88

I think fighting for the ability to write a custom OS for a phone misses the point. It should be possible to participate in the modern economy using standard technology. To this end, I think there should be a mandate that all govt and commercial infrastructure apps offer a progressive web app with at least feature parity with proprietary phone apps. Want me to use a phone to pay for lunch, EV charging, parking or a t…

Should be one of the top comments.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#905

Post by yibg »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

I also don't like the push towards accounts with google / apple etc or using apps to do everything, or the walled gardens that are the apple and google app stores.

To play the devil's advocate though, hasn't this always been the case when new technology gains widespread adoption? e.g. going backwards in time, at some point not having an email address wasn't a big hinderance, nor was not having a phone number etc. Telcos got regulated, maybe that's the next step for google, apple etc.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#906

Post by keepamovin »

fainpul wrote: post #748
keepamovin wrote: post #301

The context of "ownership" is more nuanced when it comes to hardware devices - and even software. What do you think when you say ownership? I think - "this is totally mine. Nobody else's. I can do with this what I want. It is entirely up to me." Do you own your passport? In fact, you probably do not. Most passports have a page stating to the effect that "this passport remains the property of ". DO you own your device…

You try to make an analogy with the passport, but you achieve exactly the opposite: you make it obvious that they are not the same. I don't "own" my passport. I'm not allowed to alter it in any way. I have to report it to the authorities if it gets lost or stolen. I'm not allowed to sell it or give it away. It's an official government document. I do own my smartphone. I can put stickers on it. I can open it and modif…

You certainly picked some phrases in there that could be combined and interpreted to imply something different. You have a good skill at finding what could be improved. You'd be great at music or maths I think - is that your passion?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#907

Post by mixmastamyk »

fastball wrote: post #133
gdulli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you decide to trade your liberty for security, it becomes the norm and then no one has liberty.

Apple is a company, not a government. I haven't traded my liberty for anything. Again, you can buy a different phone – that is where liberty comes into this equation. If the USG decides to pass a law saying you can only buy iPhones, then we will have more to talk about w.r.t. liberty. Nothing actually prevents you from modifying your iPhone however you see fit, btw. If you are incapable of breaking Apple's security w…

When there is a natural monopoly/oligopoly, it needs to be regulated as a utility, otherwise we’re all doomed.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#908

Post by owlbite »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

I think this is the thing we need to change most. These big companies effectively have as much power as courts to break your life, but no transparency, oversight, appeals process or even a clear process in some cases. They can destroy a person or a small business without even noticing.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#909

Post by pbnjeh »

I recently bought an iPhone (Pro Max, on a secondary number) to have one on-hand to better tutor and troubleshoot for my parents. I just had to provide an instance of that this weekend on a phone call.

My daily driver is a recent Pixel Pro. If Google takes away the already limited additional flexibility it provides me over an iPhone, I don't see the need to provide them my money nor my attention, going forward.

Actually, I've been thinking about carrying some sort of Linux device and relegating the phone to being a hot spot for it, plus traditional calls and texts (and "necessary" apps, I guess). I don't really want to schlep more around with me, but even less so do I want to be squeezed into the box of BigCo corporate approved activities.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#910

Post by petre »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

It's esentially boolean social scoring, just think about it.
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