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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#901

Post by GoblinSlayer »

gs17 wrote: post #756
ramesh31 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why haven’t game stores just spin off separate store front for porn content? It is basically free, since they already have the infrasructure. Because the payment processing is unreliable and prohibitively expensive. For all the whining about "moral pearl clutching", the reality is that adult oriented businesses deal with massively higher rates of fraud and charge-backs. Visa and Mastercard couldn't care less about t…

> the reality is that adult oriented businesses deal with massively higher rates of fraud and charge-backs This gets repeated, but it's not the real reason. If it were, Visa/MasterCard would be fine with a store like Steam offering those games as e.g. crypto-only purchases.

Found an explanation: the reputational risk they're talking about is 2022 pornhub case. Most likely some saudi dude didn't like it and threatened to pull. That's why they don't talk about it: because it's literal sharia exported around the world.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#902

Post by Faark »

SoftTalker wrote: post #866
advael wrote: post #863

It's crazy to me that people can simultaneously understand that censorship is bad and still think we can allow for exceptions for things like "obscenity/pornography" or "hate speech" Free expression means that objectionable things will be said, even published. There are certainly hairy exceptions, like doxxing, slander, or incitement to violence that can put people in immediate danger, but stuff like this clearly doe…

This isn't censorship. This is VISA/MC saying "you can't pay for porn with our service" or more broadly, "you can't pay for things that we don't want to be associated with" which is their right.

The good old "we don't serve gays" argument.

The baker case I think was about the cake, thus having to produce "reprehensible" art. Editorial work (steam selecting what games to promote) is Sth I strongly think is their right to choose. But having a transaction run through your network? That's on the other side of the spectrum, way closer to the "no gay customer" situation. If they'd at least pretend it's because of, idk, higher card fraud rates...

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#903

Post by immibis »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #897
immibis wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Circles white paper is something like this. (I heard the Circles project went off the rails, but the original white paper is still there)

Yeah, circles was the inspiration. I decided to deviate from the Circles design because I want partition tolerance--and you can't do token-issuance-on-a-schedule in a partition tolerant way (no way to agree about what time it is).

Sure you can, if you can resynchronize the time whenever partitions reconnect.

Some clock drift might even be ignorable. I say it's 5:00 and I have 100 tokens, you say it's 4:55 and I only have 99. Doesn't matter, I'm only spending 5 tokens anyway.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#904

Post by npteljes »

linuxhansl wrote: post #888
npteljes wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people actually care for the whole, or for the wholesomeness of a specific subset. This includes (on the face) most people who participate in public life. Which is a lot of people! >Don't like porn? Cool, don't buy it or avert your eyes! Why do you then tell others how to live their lives? Is really leaving everyone to their own devices the good idea? >As if this would stop anybody from getting access to pornogr…

> Why do you then tell others how to live their lives? Is really leaving everyone to their own devices the good idea? Huh? Wait? Are you suggesting that by telling people to leave me alone I am infringing on their freedom to haggle me?! What a disingenuous and hypocritical way to twist this around! Just wow. (I did not downvote.)

No, it's not about their freedom to haggle you, it's about their duty to haggle you. And by implying a correct way to live, you also do actually impose that on others, even though on the face, it looks like you are granting personal freedom. Similar to how not voting is also a participation in the political system, how people can lie by omission, or how not making a decision ends up being a decision itself.

People in a community can't leave each other to their own devices, because that's simply not how people and communities work. What do you think about tradition, and laws?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#905

Post by npteljes »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #884
npteljes wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another framing of this: Mastercard / Visa, and by extension whomever had them to do the crackdown, are now powerless to change DLSite. Googling for news, it seems like the story between DLSite and M/V is a push and pull. Many articles turn up that say they have an agreement, then a disagreement, then an agreement again, then a suspension, then they bring it back again etc. My point here is that their relationship wi…

It's not just dlsite, Visa is on killing spree in Japan https://automaton-media.com/en/news/access-to-adult-pc-games... - see links to other cases As for objectification of women: https://automaton-media.com/en/news/credit-card-restrictions...

I see the assault, but the results are very different from what we can see with Steam and itch.io - I think maybe because of how much M/V matter in the West vs. Japan. Whereas these western companies gave in to pressure, the same pressure in Japan didn't work, the stores just seemed to restrict the card usage, and call it a day.

I wish other payment processors spread in the West. With a much more even distribution of power, they could not abuse it like this (and others could not use them to abuse it like this).

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#906

Post by BlueTemplar »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #234
FranchuFranchu wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't realistically target anyone outside the US with this.

You can’t realistically target anyone inside the US with it either. USPS is allowed to seize cash in packages if it believes it’s being used for illegal purposes.

We are discussing legal purchases though, not illegal ones.

At least I hope that USPS is forbidden from not (eventually) delivering legal packages ?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#907

Post by Grustaf »

ronsor wrote: post #865
tacitusarc wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the principles governing the exceptions you listed (slander, doxxing, incitement)?

1. Direct, obvious harm beyond "my feelings were upset." 2. Actually, this isn't illegal in a lot of places. 3. Direct, obvious harm beyond "my feelings were upset."

Do you actually believe that the issue with porn is that it "upsets people's feelings"?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#908

Post by Grustaf »

nosignono wrote: post #205

This is absolutely a wedge to censor LGBTQ+ content. If you can separately argue that adult content should be blocked and LGBTQ+ themes are for adults, then you can block queer content online en masse. Visa and Mastercard have too much power, and are too willing to capitulate.

Is there any indication or reason why they would want to block LGBTQ+ content? Haven't both companies been very vocal supporters of LGBTQ+ in the past?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#909

Post by immibis »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #893
toomanyrichies wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t buy the “revealed a latent fetish” explanation. I don’t think people are born with a fetish baked into their soul. There’s a 3rd explanation: fetishes aren’t inborn, but they’re not instilled by porn either. Instead, they develop through a complex interaction of psychological, developmental, neurological, and cultural factors. One theory is that, if a person repeatedly experiences sexual arousal in the pres…

To add: I had never heard of the "blueberry expansion" fetish before. But that sounds like it fits the above explanation. Five bucks says people with this fetish had a childhood experience where their parents sat them in front of a TV, put on "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory", and went to make love in the next room. The kid probably figured out what was going on around the same time Violet Beauregarde turned in…

I've heard of expansion fetish before; my immediate hypothesis was that it's about mental wiring normally related to pregnancy (the same way foot fetishes are hypothesized to be related to wiring meant for your genitals). I've never heard of someone specifically wanting to be a giant blueberry but it's not hard to guess that once the general pattern of a fetish exists, specific details could be impressed by various conditioning processes.

I can't think of an analogous reaso someone might like chocolate rivers or pneumatic tubes. There probably are people out there who really like little orange people but by a totally different mechanism.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#910

Post by stevenAthompson »

godelski wrote: post #832
stevenAthompson wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you said, and it was well said. However, I disagree in two ways. Firstly, while villainizing them is unhelpful convincing them is utterly impossible when religion is involved. It doesn't matter if we learn to understand their perspective, especially as logic/reason often doesn't apply and they aren't being honest about their goals and motivations. I think the best anyone can hope for in such…

> utterly impossible when religion is involved If that were true, I wouldn't be where I am and we'd be having a very different conversation. I can tell you it wasn't impossible for me

I was going to argue that you seem like a bit of a rare creature, but I suppose you would know better than I. I didn't bring it up because I didn't want it to sound like a personal attack or something.

Do YOU feel that it's common for folks to change their minds about such deeply held beliefs? I've met a few over the years that I know of. Maybe there are more, and I just don't realize it.

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