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The United States withdraws from UNESCO

state.gov

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Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#901

Post by cooper_ganglia »

amendegree wrote: post #889
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@grok what is the Nakba

Answer: a war of genocide and extermination attempted by 6+ Arab/muslim majority states against the nascent nation of Israel, fortunately for all involved they completely failed and in fact ended up losing land. While they did succeed in ethnically cleansing the Jews from any land that did end up under Jordan and Egyptian occupation, and they did expel (ie ethnically cleanse) Jews from most Muslim majority countries,…

It’s hard to believe anyone can manage the mental gymnastics required to genuinely believe what you’ve just written, yet there it is.

The irony is that the only ones taking notes from Hitler’s playbook are Netanyahu and the leaders who came before him. Justifying their actions has become the modern-day equivalent of “just following orders.”

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#902

Post by Hikikomori »

mola wrote: post #883
Hikikomori wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has the right to exist in that area? The people that already lived there and their offspring, who are now refugees in Gaza. People do have the right to form their own states, but on land they already own legally and ethically, not when you colonize land already occupied by others. I did not call for the end of Israel as a project, I do disagree with it's creation, considering how it turned out, especially since i…

You are severely lacking in history. You domknownthat Palestinians are mostly Arabs and not native to the region. The Israeli founders accepted the UN partition resolution. all Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy and create their pan Arabian fantasy. In the 90s Israel initiated the peace process and gave self rule to the Palestinians with an end goal to create a Palestinian state. Hamas decided to send suicide…

Whos's native then? Only jews? What about the peoples that lived in that region before them? Or the people that moved through the area after leaving Africa? This is a nonsense argument, people lived there and others colonized the area and has operated like most European colonies. This is what happened in recent times, not 2000 years ago.

In private letters from the founders they write about their true intent of accepting the 48 deal just to get a foothold and then keep taking over the rest of the land, you can look it up yourself. And what a deal, Jews owned like 7% of the land and was handed 55%? Why would anyone be angry about that. By an organization that was basically three countries in a trenchcoat and without the support of most the people who lived there.

I know Hamas is bad, I can call them terrorist without a problem. Netanyahu however is also a fan of Hamas as he has stated its critical to prop them up as that allows them to divide and conquer the Palestinians and create more chaos that they can use. Exactly like how they are using Oct 7 in both Gaza and the West Bank now.

I understand that Israel is in the grips of far right zionist fanatics, but a large part of their population does support some kind of genocide.

Your genocide excuses are disgusting.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#903

Post by lupusreal »

splintercell wrote: post #711
lupusreal wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide denial is a bad look.

If I accuse you of committing a genocide, you have no way of defending yourself if you in fact are not doing it?

You're talking about the most documented genocide in human history. The whole world is watching; Israel's crimes against humanity will never be forgotten.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#904

Post by amendegree »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #901
amendegree wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: a war of genocide and extermination attempted by 6+ Arab/muslim majority states against the nascent nation of Israel, fortunately for all involved they completely failed and in fact ended up losing land. While they did succeed in ethnically cleansing the Jews from any land that did end up under Jordan and Egyptian occupation, and they did expel (ie ethnically cleanse) Jews from most Muslim majority countries,…

It’s hard to believe anyone can manage the mental gymnastics required to genuinely believe what you’ve just written, yet there it is. The irony is that the only ones taking notes from Hitler’s playbook are Netanyahu and the leaders who came before him. Justifying their actions has become the modern-day equivalent of “just following orders.”

You’re not the first person in history to blame the joos for all the world’s ills and unfortunately you probably won’t be the last. But hopefully here on HN such rhetoric will be unwelcome.

Nothing I wrote is untrue or even remotely eye opening. It’s all just plain facts, that the Palestinians themselves admit as supported by the sibling comment quoting from a book written by one of them.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#905

Post by taylodl »

breppp wrote: post #736
taylodl wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if one believes the people of Gaza bear some responsibility for not overthrowing Hamas, that doesn't justify Israel for violating international humanitarian law. Collective punishment, targeting civilians, or blocking humanitarian aid are considered war crimes regardless of who governs a territory. Accountability for one party doesn't erase the legal and moral obligations of the other.

Yes and that's why there's an effort to transfer food as I quoted above. However, I believe most arguments on this subject presuppose Palestinians as people without agency, Hamas as a non-Palestinian organization which is incidentally the government of Gaza

Trump is my president yet neither I, nor the majority of Americans, voted for him. So what's your point?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#906

Post by amendegree »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #487
rafram wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s one big club, and we’re not in it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here, but like it or not, most Americans do support Israel.

That's no longer true, nor should it be: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-ameri... From the article: >The public’s views of Israel have turned more negative over the past three years. More than half of U.S. adults (53%) now express an unfavorable opinion of Israel, up from 42% in March 2022 It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Putin figured that…

> invade a country

Arab colonizers invaded Israel on Oct 7th (and many times before that too) and kidnapped 100s of civilians. Israel is now trying to retrieve them.

> commit a genocide

Arab/Muslim colonizers have been attempting genocide since before the 1600s, their most recent attempt was on Oct 7th. Again Israel is simply trying to reclaim their own people and prevent any future genocide attempts.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#908

Post by f33d5173 »

dlubarov wrote: post #896
f33d5173 wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jews have now recovered their population numbers to where thy were prior to the holocaust. Therefore the holocaust was not a genocide. Thoughts?

The (arguably) relevant metric is population change during a purported genocide, not afterward.

If a definition of genocide is sensitive to where we mark the start and end of the genocide, then it isn't a very good definition of genocide. We can do the same thing with area: suppose some ethnic group was being genocided in a particular region, but overall population growth of that group was positive. Does that make it no longer a genocide? Clearly not.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#909

Post by f33d5173 »

amendegree wrote: post #900
f33d5173 wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jews have now recovered their population numbers to where thy were prior to the holocaust. Therefore the holocaust was not a genocide. Thoughts?

This is both categorically false and completely irrelevant. The first claim is that genocide has been happening since 1948, the second claim is that it has increased in intensity in the last two years, both claims can be completely dismissed as fabrications by simply looking at the population growth of the nation that is supposedly being killed. I honestly don’t know why you would bring up the fact that the Jewish po…

The point is that genocide has to do with deliberately killing people with the goal of destroying their people or culture. Hitler failed at destroying the jewish culture, does that mean he wasn't a genocidist? Whether an attempted genocide is successful does not alter that it is a genocide, population growth numbers are irrelevant.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#910

Post by lbrito »

ActorNightly wrote: post #842
lbrito wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are other genocides happening in Myanmar and Sudan that nobody talks about. Sounds a lot like whataboutism. I heard a lot of that term going around whenever anyone dared mention any non-mainstream talking point about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but funnily enough, no one seems to talk about now.

Lol its not whataboutism. You can't do this thing where you just throw in fallacies at something randomly do discredit. Whataboutism is when you justify the wrongdoing of X by pointing out that Y is also wrong and nothing is being done about it. Im simply pointing out that if your outrage about Palestine is genocide, then you should be outraged about the other genocides. You can either agree, or you can further narro…

It absolutely is about whataboutism insofar as people here (not you specifically) use it as a pseudo-argument that automatically wins a discussion, but applying it only when convenient for their political preferences or worldview.

Took me a while, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084334

Compare our two posts:

"I can think of one very powerful country doing exactly that for over half a century. Hope we're all collectively raging against anything coming from that country."

and

"There are other genocides happening in Myanmar and Sudan that nobody talks about."

Please be honest and fair. Don't you agree both of these arguments are more or less in the same vein? We're both pointing out that Bad Shit is happening elsewhere in time or space, and for some reason we think that public attention/outrage is unfairly shifted towards a specific conflict. We both imply that there is a deliberate political reason leading to that specific conflict being in the limelight and not any other conflict.

Given our little discussion here, I probably strongly disagree with you on the specifics of this specific conflict (Gaza). But we both have made the same argument, coming from diametrically opposed points of view: we both think (correct me if I'm wrong) that people/media/society etc have pet conflicts to be outraged with in detriment of all other ongoing conflicts. Or in short -- hypocrisy. Although I disagree with you, I very much think this specific argument is absolutely valid.

My point is that media and online people (HN) were very eager to scream Whataboutism when the exact same comment was made in another context (Ukraine), but everyone seems to have forgotten about Whataboutism in this conflict when people like yourself make comments in the same vein.

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