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What if we made advertising illegal?

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Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#901

Post by dangus »

interludead wrote: post #619
dangus wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's talk about the modern world then. You want to get away from the grind of working for someone else and sustain yourself on your own. Perhaps you could turn into a subsistence farmer making every home product you own on your own or in a small commune, or perhaps you and a group of employees could buy your existing employer. But the other more realistic method is that you would start your own business so you no lo…

But I think part of the article's point is less about banning all forms of spreading the word and more about dismantling the surveillance-driven, hyper-targeted ad economy that's become the default.

That is really not what the article says at all. It is working in absolutes.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#902

Post by dangus »

sapphicsnail wrote: post #519
dangus wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's talk about the modern world then. You want to get away from the grind of working for someone else and sustain yourself on your own. Perhaps you could turn into a subsistence farmer making every home product you own on your own or in a small commune, or perhaps you and a group of employees could buy your existing employer. But the other more realistic method is that you would start your own business so you no lo…

> People would only know brands like Coca-Cola, Tide, and Apple, the brands they knew about the day the ads shut off. I wouldn't be surprised if these brands are so dominant because they can afford to flood the country with ads.

This is true. Big brands that have advertisements all over like Coca-Cola do it precisely because their position is so saturated and dominant.

They need to remind you about them even though you already prefer them and know they exist because they want you to buy more than you would otherwise.

I still think a lack of advertising for smaller competitors really would be devastating. DuckDuckGo and Reddit achieved pretty amazing recent growth aided by major outdoor ad campaigns. These were sites that were not market leaders in their categories and had a lot of catching up to do.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#903

Post by dangus »

barnabee wrote: post #654
dangus wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's talk about the modern world then. You want to get away from the grind of working for someone else and sustain yourself on your own. Perhaps you could turn into a subsistence farmer making every home product you own on your own or in a small commune, or perhaps you and a group of employees could buy your existing employer. But the other more realistic method is that you would start your own business so you no lo…

> IMO the idea of removing advertising entirely would essentially entrench the status quo even further. This doesn’t seem correct to me. Products would still be searchable, but the wealthiest companies could no longer pay for placement or pay to have their brand name repeated endlessly so it’s on the tip of your tongue but you don’t know why. People would still talk in their communities and share recommendations. Rev…

As one example, I think about how DuckDuckGo was able to grow to a decent size against an impossibly entrenched competitor aided by a large outdoor ad campaigns.

Reddit also grew more rapidly in recent years post-IPO for similar reasons. Reddit used to be more niche with fewer people even knowing it existed.

Knowing alternatives exist is half the battle. This fair comparison you hope people will make is just a hope without the ability to advertise. People have to know all possible alternatives exist in order for the market to be perfectly competitive.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#904

Post by KoftaBob »

gcp123 wrote: post #262

I can’t stop thinking about this article. I spent a long time in ad tech before switching to broader systems engineering. The author captures something I've struggled to articulate to friends and family about why I left the industry. The part that really struck me was framing advertising and propaganda as essentially the same mechanism - just with different masters. Having built targeting systems myself, this rings p…

> The part that really struck me was framing advertising and propaganda as essentially the same mechanism - just with different masters.

A big reason for that is influence from Edward Bernays:

"Edward Louis Bernays was an American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda, referred to in his obituary as "the father of public relations". While credited with advancing the profession of public relations, his techniques have been criticized for manipulating public opinion, often in ways that undermined individual autonomy and democratic values."

Bernays' mother, Anna, was Sigmund Freud's sister. There seemed to be a talent in that family in understanding the human psyche, and how to utilize that understanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#905

Post by 93po »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #861
snailmailman wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube so badly wants me to pay for premium. But the ads they show me are almost entirely scams and questionably legal content. Ads for guns. Ads for viagra knockoffs. Ads for “stock market tips” that use AI generated celebrity impersonations. Ads for “free money the government isn’t telling you about”. It’s constant and ever-increasing. I stopped watching a 30 minute video recently after the 5th ad break just over…

YouTube is great if you pay for it, which I do. Any time I open it on a device I’m not logged in and get an ad i instant close.

you can also use a VPN when paying to pay significantly less, though ive heard theyve cracked down on that a bit more recently

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#906

Post by JingleSting »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #223
amarant wrote: post #104

I had this idea before, but thinking about it, you very soon run into some pretty uncomfortable tradeoffs. The internet would change fundamentally. The article lists social networks as things that would disappear, and good riddance, but we'd also lose (free) search engines. Further, I'd argue that some forms of advertising are actually desirable. If I'm planning a vacation abroad, and want to make a reservation at a…

Already solved elsewhere in the thread: Ban unsolicited advertising. Product recommendations in places where the consumer is explicitly visiting to get product recommendations are not unsolicited.

[dead]

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#907

Post by darthwalsh »

eobanb wrote: post #8
tossandthrow wrote: post #3

Which is normal in a lot of European countries

You're referring to outdoor advertising; the article is talking about something much more fundamental. But of course you would know that if you had read it

Growing up around Seattle, I had never seen any billboard ads on the freeway. I had no idea it was heavily regulated in Washington State! I wish other states would ban them.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#908

Post by dclowd9901 »

I think we could actually start the path to this by making unethical advertising illegal. Here's kind of what I'm thinking: no forced advertising. All ads that steal time away from you (like forcing people to watch ads before accessing something) would be illegal. The reasoning being that you're essentially stealing an infinitely valuable resource: people's time. It's unethical for ad agencies to steal such a valuable resource for such a meager reason.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#909

Post by Cthulhu_ »

imiric wrote: post #127
toomim wrote: post #10

This begs the question: how could you reliably distinguish advertising from other forms of free speech? The courts already distinguish "commercial speech" as a class of speech. Would we prevent all forms of commercial speech? What about a waiter asking you "would you like to try a rosé with that dish? It pairs very well together." Is that "advertising" that would need to be outlawed? What about giving out free sample…

We don't need to go into absurd discussions in order to prevent 99% of the harm that comes from modern advertising. The line is clear: is money being exchanged in order to promote a product? That's advertising. Someone I know mentioning a product because they want to recommend it to me? Not advertising. Giving out "free" samples? Presumably someone is being paid to do that, so advertising. We can later quibble about…

> Someone I know mentioning a product because they want to recommend it to me? Not advertising.

Except that it is, and it's why social media is so important for marketeers; the best kind of advertising is word-to-mouth, so generating discourse about products is big business.

Anyway, without strict legislation and tight controls on social media / chat / RL, how would you know whether they would be getting paid or not?

It's a legal and / or philosophical conundrum, not to mention even more of a legal whack-a-mole than it already is.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#910

Post by hollerith »

bofadeez wrote: post #85
kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's open for discussion. Free speech is not limitless. You can wax poetically all you want about endowment by the creator, but try saying racial slurs on daytime TV and see how long that lasts. Advertisement is just another form of speech that can be limited.

"Congress shall MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." What part of that are you confused by? You are making a brash claim that the writ of the state includes the ability to censor speech. Your right…

>It's your natural right. It's not possible to separate this right from a human with a law.

I get the impression that this "natural right" term is intended to preclude inquiry and shut down discussion.

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