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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#901
post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this is not the end of your country's democracy and that in 2028 a new president will be elected. You'd disagree, I trust?

What's your argument?

I am pretty sure the US will have elections in 2028. But Trump was almost successful in overturning the 2020 election.

Now, with additional concentration of power, that increases the possibility of a successful overturning (in favor of a new conservative candidate), or simply a biased election.

Dictatorships often have elections and are supposedly democratic. The question is whether those elections reflect the genuine, informed self-interest of the people.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they are a bit loaded at all. What have the last several congresses done that has actually helped the populace?

The most notable things I recall in the last few Congresses were Mitch McConell stealing a SCOTUS appointment, the failure to remove Donald Trump from office (twice!--once for inciting an insurrection in front of the eyes of the world; it was literally televised) for political gain, and the voting down of Republicans' own immigration bill (again for political gain). Thats what happened. Pepperidge Farm remembers.

That... doesn't seem to answer GP's question at all?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#904

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

I still don’t see how this changes anything.

I think trumps legal strategy is basically, putting the quiet part into writing. It’s as you already said, what has been the norm

If trump doesn’t like how the departments are executing his policy he has the power to steer it. It makes sense he is the ultimate authority for the executive branch.

Blame congress for ceding their oversight duties to departments. Which IMO is the root of the issue.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#905

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> This can potentially enable an end run around congress and the courts in that the President can easily choose to interpret laws in a manner inconsistent with the intent of congress and courts.

How does it potentially enable that? The executive branch has always served under the delegated authority of the president. The executive branch has always been able to operate outside the laws as written and ruled on by the other branches, because they have practically no hard power.

Presumably the citizen militia are supposed to be the check and balance for that. The people have always been the ultimate deciders of the government's power.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#906
post #128

This new administration lays bare what we've known all along - the legislative gridlock and dysfunction in the house of representatives and senate has made them completely incapable of governing -- the least productive in a generation. This is opened up an opportunity for a well funded strongman, and the checks and balances that were intended to protect our democracy are now mere suggestions.

Was with you 100% until the second half of your final sentence. Can you clarify?

Not the person you're replying to, but my take on it is that the checks and balances -- embodied by the legislative and judicial branches -- are only effective if a) they take action against the executive branch, and b) the executive branch respects them.

Congress is sitting on its hands and seems to be enjoying the view so far, for the most part. Republicans in Congress seem to think it's fine that Trump is usurping power vested in the legislative branch. Or at the very least they're afraid to speak up; every time they do, Trump threatens to primary them during the next election cycle. (I'm honestly not sure which is worse.) Democrats are "waiting for the right pitch to swing at" (paraphrasing Jeffries), as if doing nothing is some sort of strategy. And it's not like they can do anything anyway; certainly they have the power to get proposed legislation passed/not passed if Johnson loses a few GOP votes, but they can't get new legislation on the floor (y'know, like something that says "get DOGE out of the government's computer systems, right now") without the permission of GOP-controlled committees and Mike Johnson.

The courts are doing some things so far, but by their very nature, they're slower to act. But even if they tell Trump he can't do something, Trump doesn't actually have to listen. The executive branch is responsible for the enforcement of laws... and court orders. Let's say a court orders Musk to stop doing something, and he ignores it. Let's then say the court finds Musk in contempt, and orders him jailed. Who is going to arrest him? Not Trump's US Marshals Service, not Trump's FBI, etc.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#907
You guys are lucky to have biology on your side.

Statistically, Trump will be in charge for about 10 years max, before the Grimm Reaper creates a power vacuum. (I can't wait for his creative interpretation of the 22st.)

At this point, options will be open again.

May some real lawyers have a jab at this.

Good luck.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#908

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

I still don’t see how this changes anything. I think trumps legal strategy is basically, putting the quiet part into writing. It’s as you already said, what has been the norm If trump doesn’t like how the departments are executing his policy he has the power to steer it. It makes sense he is the ultimate authority for the executive branch. Blame congress for ceding their oversight duties to departments. Which IMO is…

No concept of constitutional supremacy and an end to legal precedent is what you consider to be the norm in USA?

What's your job?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#909
post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Congress passes a law saying, "create an agency that sets rules about air pollution, whose director is appointed by the president", the constitution demands that the executive branch do exactly that. Interpreting that to mean "The president personally sets rules about air pollution, using an agency if he likes" is unconstitutional and I think the vast majority of both parties agreed on this for most of the last…

If Congress disagrees they have ways to override the president. They can pass new laws or even impeach him. But unless the dems get 2/3 the senate that will never happen.

> unless the dems get 2/3 the senate that will never happen.

If the Dems ever got more than 2/3 of the Senate, then precisely the number of Dems necessary to vote against their party would do so. The party would loudly bemoan the result, and then point out that the defectors had to be DINOs so that they could win their district.

In other words, that will never happen, and was never gonna happen; even if Dems could win a 70% majority without war breaking out over perceived election theft.

Personally, I can't have any faith in a party which armed and supported genocide to defend either democracy or checks and balances. They 'accidentally' dropped the ball many times on this exact issue [0] over the last four years, when heading all this off at the pass would have been far simpler.

0 - https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#910
post #813
post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Where do people think the agency derives 100% of it's power from? The President! You clearly do not understand how the American system of governance is supposed to work. Every department has enabling legislation. Below is a link to a law passed by Congress and signed by the President establishing the DOJ. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/jmd/legacy/2013/...

Executive power is derived from the President.

Congress can design an agency, set it's processes and procedures, and give it money to run.

But the President is in charge of it within those bounds. The President can't decided DOJ doesn't need an Attorney General (Congress already decided that), but the President gets to pick the AG and the AG reports to the President.

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