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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#901

Post by account42 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #65
galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

Open source attracts some of the very worst users. Often people pretending to be trying to help by "suggesting improvements", but just as often entitled people who want to work for free. I don't think policies will change that. It's just something you have to accept when you provide something useful to lots of people for free. Even if you use moderated environments for user feedback (adding the burden of constantly b…

> Open source attracts some of the very worst users.

This has not been my experience. Perhaps consider that the problem is not the users.

> the active sabotage some angry Linux kernel devs are trying to pull because they don't like Rust

On the other hand, users that demand you rewrite the project in their favorite language or otherwise accomodate their preferences over your own are pretty annoying.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#902

Post by dwattttt »

nromiun wrote: post #537

> For a long time, well after we had a stable release, people kept claiming Asahi Linux and Fedora Asahi Remix in particular were “alpha” and “unstable” and “not suitable for a daily driver” (despite thousands of users, myself included, daily driving it and even using it for servers). Well, they were proved right.

They were, sadly, proved right not by Apple's actions, but by the kernel development community.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#903

Post by lillecarl »

coldtea wrote: post #890
lillecarl wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my understanding as well, as soon as the node exclusivity dropped they were ballpark equal. Many ARM SOC are designed to run on battery only so the wireless packages and low power states are better, my AMD couldn't go below 400mhz. But yeah the "Apple M hardware is miles and leagues away" hypetrain was just a hypetrain. Impressive and genuinely great but not revolutionary, at best incremental. I hope to be abl…

> But yeah the "Apple M hardware is miles and leagues away" hypetrain was just a hypetrain. Impressive and genuinely great but not revolutionary, at best incremental. Compared to the incremental changes we've seen the previous 10 years before it arrived on AMD/Intel space, it was revolutionary.

We must have different definitions of the word "revolutionary". They put a high-end mobile chip in a laptop and it came out good, what's revolutionary? The UMA architecture has advantages but hardly revolutionary.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#904

Post by account42 »

kobebrookskC3 wrote: post #826
mrtksn wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You refund them and it’s solved. You don’t have that option with free users.

why not? just tell them "if you don't like it, you can get a refund" (aka fuck off)

Excactly, refunds are so much easier when you don't need to worry about transaction fees.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#905

Post by lillecarl »

bayindirh wrote: post #888
lillecarl wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my understanding as well, as soon as the node exclusivity dropped they were ballpark equal. Many ARM SOC are designed to run on battery only so the wireless packages and low power states are better, my AMD couldn't go below 400mhz. But yeah the "Apple M hardware is miles and leagues away" hypetrain was just a hypetrain. Impressive and genuinely great but not revolutionary, at best incremental. I hope to be abl…

> But yeah the "Apple M hardware is miles and leagues away" hypetrain was just a hypetrain. Impressive and genuinely great but not revolutionary, at best incremental. It's more nuanced than that. Apple effectively pulled a "Sony A7-III" move. Released something one generation ahead before everybody else, and disrupted everyone. Sony called "A7-III" entry level mirrorless, but it had much more features even when compa…

I like the Sony story, but I don't think Apple did "pull everyone along" like that, they had an exclusivity deal with TSMC to be first on a good manufacturing node improvement. They took their high-quality, high-performance iPhone SoC, gave it more juice and a bit better thermals.

It's just another "Apple integrating well" story.

Their SoC is huge compared to competitors because Apple doesn't have to make a profit selling a SoC, they profit selling a device + services so they can splurge on the SoC, splurging on the SoC plus being one node ahead is just "being good", the team implementing Rosetta are the real wizards doing "revolutionary cool shit" if anything

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#906

Post by gsck »

kllrnohj wrote: post #515
gsck wrote: post #139

I'm not sure about why they are upset with the issue of upstreaming the changes into the kernal. They want to upstream drivers for a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden. The knowledge around it is from a massive , albeit impressive, RE effort. Who is going to support it? Where is the demand for it? It would be different if Apple were to provide p…

You should click through some of the links to see where the clashes actually happened. It didn't have anything to do with the actual hardware support. Rather, it was over stupid shit like the kernel DMA team throwing a hissy fit over the idea of there being Rust bindings for the DMA interface: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250108122825.136021-3-abdiel.... When the response to such a small contribution is just "No ru…

"No rust code in kernel/dma, please" is a totally reasonable request though, once again it comes down to who supports it? When 99% of the kernel is written in C it makes sense to keep it C.

If you start introducing new languages that most maintainers are not anywhere near as familiar with, you create an unmaintainable mess.

Linux isn't a hobby project anymore, its critical infrastructure. You can just introduce changes because a few people think its cool.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#907

Post by gsck »

follower wrote: post #866
gsck wrote: post #139

I'm not sure about why they are upset with the issue of upstreaming the changes into the kernal. They want to upstream drivers for a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden. The knowledge around it is from a massive , albeit impressive, RE effort. Who is going to support it? Where is the demand for it? It would be different if Apple were to provide p…

> Where is the demand for it? There was at least one person who said[0]: "I'd absolutely love to have one, if it just ran Linux.. [...] I've been waiting for an ARM laptop that can run Linux for a long time. The new Air would be almost perfect, except for the OS." Seems like the same person has even used Asahi to make a Linux kernel release[1][2]. But Linux presumably doesn't have the resources to go chasing hardware…

I also think it would be cool to run Linux on my MacBook. But that alone isn't reason enough to add support for it.

Linux runs on over 90% of all production servers on the planet, think about that. If you introduce a change it needs to work and be maintained, if you add something but then later realise you dont have the resources to maintain it you can't remove it. You have created more work for yourself. Relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#908

Post by gsck »

purplesyringa wrote: post #493
gsck wrote: post #139

I'm not sure about why they are upset with the issue of upstreaming the changes into the kernal. They want to upstream drivers for a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden. The knowledge around it is from a massive , albeit impressive, RE effort. Who is going to support it? Where is the demand for it? It would be different if Apple were to provide p…

This quite literally the story of nouveau. The driver exists because people need it, and the driver is maintained by the people who wrote it. I don't see why the same doesn't apply to Linux on Apple Silicon.

Yes but how many nvidia graphics cards are there in circulation? I'd say infinitely more than there are Apple M1/2/3/4 chips in the wild.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#909

Post by account42 »

nrabulinski wrote: post #314
rdtsc wrote: post #209

A person can be in a tough spot personally and then things seem to spiral out of control around them because that just cannot be 100% isolated from professional stuff or other spheres of life. It seems like this might have happened to Hector based on the post. We've all been there and that part is completely understandable. > I get that some people might not have liked my Mastodon posts. Yes, I can be abrasive someti…

> That’s not ok. Then entertain his question and tell us what is? Bringing up people’s attention to the matter to finally somehow resolve the situation is his last resort, after spending years trying to upstream even trivial patches. You can eat your cake and have it too - you can’t say you want rust in the kernel and then sabotage any upstreaming efforts

Your assumption is that others owe it to him to have this situation resolved in a way he finds acceptable.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#910

Post by account42 »

kennysoona wrote: post #864
diggan wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then he can't help himself. After being so reasonable, he throws shade on Rust. Shade that is just unfortunately, just false? Many discussions online (and offline) suffer from a huge-group of people who just can't stop themselves from making their knee-jerk reactions public, and then not thinking about it more. I remember the "Filesystem in Rust" video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiPp9YEBV0Q&t=1529s ) whe…

> You can literally shove facts in someone's face, and they won't admit to being wrong or misunderstand, and instead continue to argue against some points whose premise isn't even true. This is like probably 80% of people and fundamentally why the world is a hellscape instead of a utopia.

Maybe try not shoving things into people's faces and you'll find them to be much friendlier.
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