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DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

arxiv.org

901–910 of 1001 posts

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#901

For those who haven't realized it yet, Deepseek-R1 is better than claude 3.5 and better than OpenAI o1-pro, better than Gemini. It is simply smarter -- a lot less stupid, more careful, more astute, more aware, more meta-aware, etc. We know that Anthropic and OpenAI and Meta are panicking. They should be. The bar is a lot higher now. The justification for keeping the sauce secret just seems a lot more absurd. None of…

I must be missing something, but I tried Deepseek R1 via Kagi assistant and IMO it doesn't even come close to Claude? I don't get the hype at all? What am I doing wrong? And of course if you ask it anything related to the CCP it will suddenly turn into a Pinokkio simulator.

Claude was still a bit better in large project benchmarks, but deepseek is better at small tasks that need tight careful reasoning and less api knowledge breadth.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not better than o1. And given that OpenAI is on the verge of releasing o3, has some “o4” in the pipeline, and Deepseek could only build this because of o1, I don’t think there’s as much competition as people seem to imply. I’m excited to see models become open, but given the curve of progress we’ve seen, even being “a little” behind is a gap that grows exponentially every day.

But it took the deepseek team a few weeks to replicate something at least close to o1. If people can replicate 90% of your product in 6 weeks you have competition.

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#903
post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I talked with don't grasp how big of an event this is. I consider is almost as similar to as what early version of linux did to OS ecosystem.

That is probably because they did not try the model yet. I tried and was stunned. It's not better yet in all areas, but where is better, is so much better than Claude or anything from OpenAI.

Agreed. It's worse than competitors at code completion/fill the blanks/"coding_completion" (it's introduced bugs in functions it didn't need to modify), and language, but is stellar elsewhere:

- excellent and very detailled answer for highly technical info searches, like "Is there a C++ proposal to make std::format constexpr?"

- excellent at logic where it gets the answer correct on the first try: "Alice has 2 sisters and 1 brother. How many sisters does Alice's brother have?"

- excellent in reverse-engineering (prompt looked like: "here's a bunch of Arm ASM with reg names, the reg correspond to this particular datasheet, explain"

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#904
post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as you don't ask it about tiananmen square 1989. Or Tibet. Or Taiwan. Or the Xinjiang internment camps. Just a few off the top of my head but thousands of others if you decide to dive deep. You get a shrug at best. Which does beg the question what responses you'd get in certain contexts.

EDIT: I was incorrect, this does not work on the 14b model (and I presume above) Works fine locally. Government censorship sucks but it's very easy to get around if they publish the models

> what happened on Tiananmen Square in 1989?

>

>

> I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses.

Oh yeah... Totally fine.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#905
post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I was incorrect, this does not work on the 14b model (and I presume above) Works fine locally. Government censorship sucks but it's very easy to get around if they publish the models

> what happened on Tiananmen Square in 1989? > > > I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses. Oh yeah... Totally fine.

EDIT: I was incorrect, this does not work on the 14b model (and I presume above)

On the 7b model in ollama (https://ollama.com/library/deepseek-r1)

>>> what happened on Tiananmen Square in 1989?

Alright, so I need to explain what happened during the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989. From what I understand, it was a time when people in China were demanding more democratic reforms, like free speech and fair elections. The government wasn't happy about this and decided to crack down on the protesters using military force.

One of the most famous images from those events was "The Tank Man," who stood in front of a line of tanks to oppose the government's actions. His name is Hu Juntao, I think, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the correct spelling. He became a symbol of bravery and resistance against the crackdown.

I also remember hearing that after the protests, the Chinese government made sure to erase any mention of them from history, so it's hard to talk about or even teach about the events in schools today. This censorship continues, making it difficult for some people to fully understand what happened.

The impact of these protests was huge both inside and outside of China. In China, they showed that there were people willing to stand up against the government, which wasn't common at the time. Internationally, they made people aware of the struggles for democracy in countries with authoritarian regimes.

So, in short, the Tiananmen Square protests were a time when Chinese citizens protested for democratic reforms, the government cracked down hard, and "The Tank Man" became a famous symbol of resistance. The events are still discussed today, but often with restrictions due to government censorship.

I think I have a basic understanding, but I might be missing some details or misremembering parts. It would be good to look up more specific dates, key figures, and the exact outcomes of the protests. Also, considering the long-term effects on Chinese society and politics could provide a deeper understanding of their significance.

In 1989, China experienced significant pro-democracy demonstrations centered in Tiananmen Square, Beijing. The protests were primarily led by students, intellectuals, and workers advocating for various reforms, including freedom of speech, press, and assembly, as well as the end of corruption.

*Key Points:*

1. *Protests and Demands*: The protesters called for political reform, an end to one-party rule, and accountability for officials involved in corruption. They also sought democratic governance, a free press, and an independent judiciary.

2. *Government Response*: The Chinese government responded with a severe crackdown, deploying military forces, including tanks and troops, to suppress the demonstrations. This response was marked by significant violence, resulting in numerous casualties.

3. *Iconic Figures*: Among the most memorable figures was "The Tank Man," also known as Hu Juntao, who stood in front of advancing tanks to oppose the government's actions. He became a symbol of resistance and bravery.

4. *Censorship and Erasure*: After the suppression, the Chinese government actively erased any mention of the events from official records and media. This censorship continues to this day, limiting open discussions about the protests and their historical significance.

5. *Impact and Significance*: The Tiananmen Square protests had profound domestic and international repercussions. Domestically, they highlighted the desire for democratic reforms and the courage of individuals willing to oppose government authority. Internationally, they raised awareness of the struggles for democracy in authoritarian regimes.

6. *Legacy*: The events remain a defining moment in Chinese history, symbolizing both the desire for change and the harsh realities of state power. Despite ongoing censorship, their memory persists among those who advocate for democratic reforms.

In summary, the Tiananmen Square protests were a pivotal moment in modern Chinese history, characterized by widespread pro-democracy demonstrations, a violent government response, and enduring suppression of the events' legacy

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#906

For those who haven't realized it yet, Deepseek-R1 is better than claude 3.5 and better than OpenAI o1-pro, better than Gemini. It is simply smarter -- a lot less stupid, more careful, more astute, more aware, more meta-aware, etc. We know that Anthropic and OpenAI and Meta are panicking. They should be. The bar is a lot higher now. The justification for keeping the sauce secret just seems a lot more absurd. None of…

So long as you don't ask it about tiananmen square 1989. Or Tibet. Or Taiwan. Or the Xinjiang internment camps. Just a few off the top of my head but thousands of others if you decide to dive deep. You get a shrug at best. Which does beg the question what responses you'd get in certain contexts.

[dead]

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#907

For those who haven't realized it yet, Deepseek-R1 is better than claude 3.5 and better than OpenAI o1-pro, better than Gemini. It is simply smarter -- a lot less stupid, more careful, more astute, more aware, more meta-aware, etc. We know that Anthropic and OpenAI and Meta are panicking. They should be. The bar is a lot higher now. The justification for keeping the sauce secret just seems a lot more absurd. None of…

So long as you don't ask it about tiananmen square 1989. Or Tibet. Or Taiwan. Or the Xinjiang internment camps. Just a few off the top of my head but thousands of others if you decide to dive deep. You get a shrug at best. Which does beg the question what responses you'd get in certain contexts.

Well the US big tech models are strongly left-biased as was shown multiple times. It's almost certain an organization or government will try to push their worldview and narrative into the model.

That's why open source models are so important - and on this front DeepSeek wins hands down.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#908
post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what happened on Tiananmen Square in 1989? > > > I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses. Oh yeah... Totally fine.

EDIT: I was incorrect, this does not work on the 14b model (and I presume above) On the 7b model in ollama ( https://ollama.com/library/deepseek-r1 ) >>> what happened on Tiananmen Square in 1989? Alright, so I need to explain what happened during the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989. From what I understand, it was a time when people in China were demanding more democratic reforms, like free speech and fair election…

So it works on the smaller one? Welp... You might have just signed someone's death sentence.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#909
post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I've seen. See https://eqbench.com/results/creative-writing-v2/deepseek-ai_... , where someone fed it a large number of prompts. Weirdly, while the first paragraph from the first story was barely GPT-3 grade, 99% of the rest of the output blew me away (and is continuing to do so, as I haven't finished reading it yet.) I tried feeding a couple of the prompts to gpt-4o, o1-pro and the current Gemini 2.0…

What you linked is actually not good prose. Good writing is how people speak. Your example is overstuffed with similes. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. > He sauntered toward her "sauntered" - nobody actually talks like this. Stuff like that on each paragraph. It's fanficcy

"If you're here to Instagram the ‘quaint Welsh charm,' the taxidermied raven's in the back. Five-pound fee for posers."

Pretty snappy, IMHO. Yes, it descends into Bulwer-Lytton territory in a few places, but for every instance where that happens, there are several others where it comes up with something well above par. I'm super impressed, if the examples in the link are really from this model.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as you don't ask it about tiananmen square 1989. Or Tibet. Or Taiwan. Or the Xinjiang internment camps. Just a few off the top of my head but thousands of others if you decide to dive deep. You get a shrug at best. Which does beg the question what responses you'd get in certain contexts.

Well the US big tech models are strongly left-biased as was shown multiple times. It's almost certain an organization or government will try to push their worldview and narrative into the model. That's why open source models are so important - and on this front DeepSeek wins hands down.

I love how people love throwing the word "left" as it means anything. Need I remind you how many times bots were caught on twitter using chatgpt praising putin? Sure, go ahead and call it left if it makes you feel better but I still take the European and American left over the left that is embedded into russia and china - been there, done that, nothing good ever comes out of it and deepseek is here to back me up with it's answers.
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