Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#901

Post by bushbaba » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:14 PM UTC

ken47 wrote: post #764

baq wrote: post #55

Are they rolling back Chinese and Indian managers only hiring Chinese and Indian folks, too?

Folks from a given country tend to network with and feel more comfortable with people from said country, affecting their hiring and promotion practices. That’s only natural.

I’m an immigrant and I’ve never felt that way. The U.S. has a melting pot of cultures with everyone able to relate to everyone in some way shape or form. Generally with food. Americans eat German food, Italian food, Indian food, Cantonese food etc. and best of all, we fusion them together…curry pizza for ex.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#902

Post by masto » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:22 PM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #783

masto wrote: post #451

I'm fortunate enough to have worked for Google during a period of time when Big Tech started to gain at least a modicum of self-awareness of its toxic culture and history of excesses and indiscretions. I arrived on the scene slightly late to witness the worst of it, but the stories were actively circulating, and the structure was very much still present. SRE teams had bars next to their desks, and office parties ende…

More than 10 years and the only major things are nebulous sexual harassment concern (without any details, of course), booze and “guys”. Remarkable achievement for DEI crowd. What a sad story, you can’t say “courage”, “allyship” anymore and get a promotion!

If I did a service here by pulling a few cockroaches out into the open, the comment was worth it.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#903

Post by ricardobeat » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:25 PM UTC

jmcdowell wrote: post #531

thefaux wrote: post #269

The really troubling news buried in this to me was the appointment of Dana White to the meta board of directors. Like seriously what purpose does he serve but to appease the new administration?

I'd recommend listening to the first hour of the podcast this is taken from just as he was more candid than I thought he would be. Zuckerberg at points brings up how the EU as is very defensive and has taken social media companies to court for the sum of 30 billion (never mentioning why). He laments how the US government need to be more protective of US tech companies overseas specifically naming the EU. When talking…

I wonder where that 30 billion figure comes from, could you have misheard?

Meta was fined for €1.2 billion (the largest fine ever) for mishandling user data in violation of GDPR. The other fines they had add up to less than two billion:

1. $800M for antitrust violations with Marketplace

2. $400M for collecting children's data on Instagram

3. $200M + $180 in Ireland for forcing users to accept new advertisement/personalization terms

4. $200M for a personal data leak

5. $200M for WhatsApp "unclear privacy policies"

6. $60M for failing to allow opt-out of third-party tracking

The law allows up to 4% of global revenue but it you stack fines it does start looking a bit ridiculous (especially #5). Though, as an EU resident, I'm happy someone is fighting for privacy and more a humane internet - even if that feels like a lost battle already.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#904

Post by formerlurker » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:25 PM UTC

annzabelle wrote: post #303

baq wrote: post #55

Are they rolling back Chinese and Indian managers only hiring Chinese and Indian folks, too?

That's the most egregious hiring practice I've actually seen. The white/black/hispanic/asian american managers all hire teams with multiple ethnicities based on the most qualified candidates for the job, while Indian born managers frequently seem to end up with teams that are 80+% Indian. I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white, even in roles that require US Citizenship, but 80% Indian happens frequently…

You’re right. This article describes many lawsuits of how U.S. citizens would get replaced with Indians on H1B.

> Insiders Tell How IT Giant Favored Indian H-1B Workers Over US Employees

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-cognizant-h1b-visas-...

I do not understand why the H1B visas are skewed towards Indian men. It isn’t fair to Indian women nor people from other countries.

> The latest data showed around 72% of visas were issued to Indian nationals, followed by 12% to Chinese citizens. [2]

> About 70% of those who enter the US on H-1B visas are men, with the average age of those approved being around 33. [2]

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckg87n2ml11o

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#905

Post by spirit-sparrow » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:25 PM UTC

DEI programs can be counter productive. The incorrect biases of the past can’t be fixed with opposite biases. Merit based equal representation should be the ideal state. For 10 positions if there are 50 applicants wearing blue and 50 applicants wearing red, knowing that the shirt colour doesn’t matter we should end up ~5 red and 5 blue new starters.

Now if there are only 2 blue applicants, then we should look into if there is something preventing the blues to get to a point where they can apply. That usually doesn’t fall under the hiring company’s control.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#906

Post by DragonStrength » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:33 PM UTC

specialp wrote: post #385

gorgoiler wrote: post #124

Diversity in tech hiring never felt like the right end of the funnel. It’s why I went into teaching and I’m proud to say after what seems like a ridiculously short amount of time (“they grow up so fast” etc.) the girls from my classes are now entering the work force as SWE and ML interns. Not many, but more than none. When we focus diversity efforts on high school kids then we get a turnaround at the funnel entrypoin…

The start of the funnel is also the most racist and class discriminatory. Almost every school in the USA takes pupils from districts where the property owners pay the taxes for the schools. Rich areas get much more resources and support. Poor students get put into less funded schools and suffer from not having mentorship or peers to look up to. I live on Long Island and we have a majority white population. Despite th…

Much of our economic disparity in this country remains regional. We have states full of poor White and Black people. Of course, I have never worked anywhere that "diverse" wasn't only about skin color and gender, which means kids in West Virginia and Alabama are treated like they grew up in Malibu. It's gotten worse where I live in recent years since those historically disadvantaged schools are also 50% English as a second language now with no new resources.

Do any tech companies have programs to hire out of historically disadvantaged regions of the US?

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#907

Post by nailer » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:39 PM UTC

JohnMakin wrote: post #3

I'm a PoC, and stuff like this reads extremely bizarre to me. On the one hand, you're acknowledging rolling back DEI initiatives in part because of the "political landscape," and that you were already committed to diversity on your teams. That's all well and good, but then, why the initiative in the first place? It seems to me you're doing at least 1 thing here, and acknowledging that such DEI program was performativ…

> I'm a PoC

Are you a black American? East and south asians generally don’t use the term, and DEI focuses on the former and penalizes the latter (hence east and south asians avoiding the term).

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#908

Post by jjulius » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:42 PM UTC

csubj wrote: post #897

lugu wrote: post #626

Coming from another continent, it feels the discourse in the US is poisoned by the word RACE. Back home, no one uses it. The best proxy for inequality is poverty. Make poor people richer with basic support like free education and health care. Tax the richer. That should solve the problem. If you wonder about woman, create support for working mum with after school program and free baby care. Sorry to state the obvious…

[flagged]

I agree that OP's idea glosses over and ignores a lot of things, but ill-spirited sarcasm is the quickest way to get someone to be defensive and argumentative rather than open to a different viewpoint/perspective had you kindly offered one.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#909

Post by torginus » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:44 PM UTC

65 wrote: post #335

OnionBlender wrote: post #248

Does this mean we can go back to using "master" as our git repo's default branch?

My controversial opinion is that I think "main" is more descriptive and intuitive than "master."

My uncontroversial opinion is that it's the worst when your company uses both, and you have to juggle a dozen different repos that have it this way or that.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#910

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:45 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #320

> At Meta, we have a principle of serving everyone. This can be achieved through cognitively diverse teams, with differences in knowledge, skills, political views, backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences. At last, a corporation acknowledges it's _cognitive_ diversity that matters. Most other forms of diversity are superficial, inherent human characterstics that are already equal under law, and make no difference t…

> There may have been historic discrimination against women and other minorities, but I have NEVER witnessed any such discrimination in the present day.

You are posting at the same time as Meta literally saying that it's okay to sling slurs at specific minorities and them only. Where multiple states in the US are banning abortion and local state governments are trying to ban gay marriage. Where the US president is outright threatening to strip people of citizenship so they can be deported.

Even from personal experience as a white straight man I have had people fire slurs at me or try to stop me from entering the male restroom because I have long hair and they assume long hair means I'm either gay or transgender.