What we know about CEO shooting suspect • Hacker News Board

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#901

Post by dudeinhawaii » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

benced wrote: post #869

benterix wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who actually lead pretty decent lives. It's because the whole image is fake. In theory everything is fine but you know there is something very bad about the healthcare system, and the power of an institution to decide about someone else's life or death is just one aspect of it; prices inflated beyond imagination is another one (these two are related). So we pretend to live normal lives but in the back of our head w…

You can leave! Nothing is stopping you from staying in the US. Particularly if you're on this website, you probably have talents other countries would like to acquire. The fact that you haven't says you don't believe what you say.

The "America, love it or leave it" tactic? It's intellectually dishonest and shortcuts any kind of debate or thoughtful discussion. Or is this more of the "you haven't left your wife beating husband so you must like it" tactic? That's also philosophically bereft and avoids anything substantive.

Suffice it to say, constructive criticism is vital for democratic improvement.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#902

Post by mrtksn » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 6:27 PM UTC

takinola wrote: post #834

LetsGetTechnicl wrote: post #728

Murder is only justified when it's your business model and behind numbers and profit margins in an Excel sheet are the real people you are sentencing to a lifetime of suffering and/or death.

A quick look at United Health's P/L shows a 6% profit margin. This does not quite support the popular rhetoric of a corporation in search of relentless margin (unless the argument is they are bad at it despite all efforts).

Very interesting, the insurance with the highest rejection rate where the medical spendings are twice the cost per capita compared to European average and the median age is younger, the insurance makes only %6?

What do you do so wrong? What is your mechanism of getting rid of those who provide you the healthcare at low efficiency and hight cost? In Europe we have elections and when those don't yield the desired results we storm the HQ and replace by force.

You can't be expecting that when too many people die the insurance company will lose customers and the shareholders will replace the top management, right?

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#903

Post by xyst » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 6:32 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #716

xyst wrote: post #491

A couple of theories: - person clearly had meticulously planned the execution of the hit and exfiltration. Even leaving red herrings on his way out of the city (backpack full of Monopoly money). Yet clumsily keeps _all_ of the evidence that would implicate himself in this murder. Not to mention he is wandering about in public while a multi-state manhunt is underway with the full weight of alphabet soup agencies, and…

This looks like a case of "suicide by revolution". Various media reports (including this one) suggest that he had a back injury in 2023, has not worked since 2023, started losing touch with friends in 2023, has been reading books about back injuries and chronic pain, etc. If you've ever known someone dealing with chronic pain, it can easily make you decide that you're better off dead than continuing to live. Likely h…

I can understand the symbolism here between the backpack of game money then.

I haven’t gotten all the details, but something like this makes sense. It was a personal vendetta from a person out of desperation/frustration.

I guess as more details come out we will know

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#904

Post by kmeisthax » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 6:35 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #658

meowfly wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic premise, as I understand it, is that there is nothing illegal about coming to the wrong conclusion as a juror. I have also read that it can be contempt of court to try to convince jurors to intentionally come to a conclusion not based on the law and evidence. So what would happen if a single juror just remained steadfast that the defendant was innocent despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Can a ju…

Whenever people justify why the US's jury system is better than the judgement by judges that's prevalent in continental Europe it's always about these exact scenarios. If you just want to find facts you don't need a jury of peers. The jury is at least in part there to pass a moral judgement beyond the letter of the law. From what I understand a juror can only be removed during the jury selection process or if someone…

> But if you don't reveal that and get into the jury you are free to rule as you want and to try to convince the other jurors to do the same.

This is perjury. On your jury duty questionnaire, there was a question (something about "faithfully upholding the law" or something) which is a roundabout way of asking "By the way, you don't plan to do a jury nullification anytime soon, do you?". If you said no to that, then got on a jury, and told everyone to do a jury nullification, you've done perjury, and you actually can be punished for that.

The only legal way to nullify a law is for each member of the jury to individually decide they don't like the law and vote to nullify. You can't convict a jury for falsely acquitting. But you can convict a jury for conspiring to do so.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#905

Post by DamnInteresting » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 6:41 PM UTC

gwd wrote: post #553

breadwinner wrote: post #44

He was carrying all of the evidence with him, including the fake ID he used at the hostel, the gun & suppressor, mask, and even a handwritten manifesto that points to his motivation. It seems he wanted to be found.

> It seems he wanted to be found. I talked to someone personally who at some point had committed a series of crimes, and at some point they started doing things that were more and more likely to get them caught; they told me they thought to themselves, "What am I doing?" But they didn't stop, and eventually got caught. In a different story, a few years ago I dropped my wallet on the sidewalk outside my house, and som…

There is a hypothesis/philosophy called Society of Mind [1] which posits that our minds are a collection of individual 'agents' that each have their own motivations, sometimes cooperating and sometimes competing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Mind

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#906

Post by goatlover » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 7:00 PM UTC

NoGravitas wrote: post #783

kypro wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was a joke when I saw the posts on the Reddit homepage celebrating the murder and even the murderer. Partly because I thought Redditors were above that type of thing, but also because I thought it was against their TOS. It's a real reminder of how little sympathy people can have about people who they consider the enemy or the "other". I'm almost certain nearly all of the people celebrating the murder bel…

> I'm almost certain nearly all of the people celebrating the murder believe that they're good people and believe in justice too. It's because they believe in justice that they are celebrating the murder.

A kind of justice that hasn't ben particularly just in the past, which is why vigilante justice isn't legal. The point is to not have citizens deciding to carry out their own idea of justice. That's for the state, which in a democratic society, we vote on, they pass laws which judges interpret and so on.

Because we can't trust everyone to deal out their own idea of justice without it turning into endless blood feuds and partisan killings. Not to mention all the lynchings and witch hunts. This doesn't even bring up the fact that most individuals don't have the resources or motivation to carry out a proper independent investigation. So then the wrong person gets hung by an angry mob, or beat to death by a family member of the victim.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#907

Post by tzs » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 7:03 PM UTC

asdafasad wrote: post #784

jkrom3 wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement is so far outside of the bounds of reality it's laughable. What about those people that are using United Health Care and getting the support they need? They account for nothing?

Ahaha, yeah, right? It's just ridiculous. What a laughable debate, this whole insurance thing is. It's just the free market working to optimize outcomes. By the way, can you help me understand what a 'pre-existing condition' is? Literally nobody outside of America has experience with this term.

Plenty of people outside the US will have experience with pre-existing conditions as a factor in health insurance.

For example many Germans will have experience with it because they have a system that has both a public and a private system. Those with high enough income (around 70k Euros) can opt out of the public system and use the private system instead. Also there are some classes of people that only can get part of their coverage from the public system and so need to buy additional coverage through the private system.

Insurers in that private system can take into account pre-existing conditions. They cannot reject an application over pre-existing conditions but they can charge higher premiums because of those conditions.

Another example is Switzerland. They have a universal healthcare system based on mandatory insurance from private health insurance companies. For that mandatory insurance pre-existing conditions are not a factor, but there is also supplemental insurance available that covers things not included in the mandatory insurance.

The supplemental providers can and do consider pre-existing conditions when deciding whether or not to provide coverage.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#908

Post by kbelder » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 7:08 PM UTC

sssilver wrote: post #424

senderista wrote: post #119

Some perspective: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-...

> [United Healhcare] net profit margin is just 6.11% Is this before or after their CEO's 23.5 million compensation?

Both?

If the guy worked for free, it would have increased margin by about 0.002%.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#909

Post by neogodless » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 7:09 PM UTC

bag_boy wrote: post #76

His x posts read like he was on an adderall bender. I wouldn't be surprised if he went into psychosis after losing a lot of sleep and never really got back to stability. Adderall and a passion rabbit-hole like societal change are a dangerous combination. The more deep you dive, the more disinterested people become with you, and the more disconnected you become with other people.

Sorry we're talking about the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter. Not Elon Musk.

Re: What we know about CEO shooting suspect

#910

Post by TehCorwiz » Tue, Dec 10, 2024, 7:15 PM UTC

IncreasePosts wrote: post #832

TehCorwiz wrote: post #704

What's important is what we learned about society's appetite for political violence against the upper class. What isn't important is the actual actor.

I think you mean the appetite for political violence of people who are chronically online and lacking connection with reality

January 6th showed that at least the far-right is OK with political violence. Lynchings show that racists are OK with political violence. Anti-Semites burning synagogues shows that they're OK with political violence. The government has never had a problem with political violence against minorities and people pushing for a more socially supportive system. But somehow when average people are OK with violence against a greedy CEO whose policies lead to thousands of preventable deaths it's a step too far.