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M4 MacBook Pro

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Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#901

Post by BeefWellington »

jwells89 wrote: post #761
EthicalSimilar wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as anyone can say otherwise, running Linux isn’t just a breeze. You will run into issues at some point, you will possibly have to make certain sacrifices regarding software or other choices. Yes it has gotten so much better over the past few years but I want my time spent on my work, not toying with the OS. Another big selling point of Apple is the hardware. Their hardware and software are integrated so seaml…

Even on the machines most well-supported by Linux, which are Intel x86 PCs with only integrated graphics and Intel wifi/bluetooth, there are still issues that need to be tinkered away like getting hardware-accelerated video decoding working in Firefox (important for keeping heat and power consumption down on laptops). I keep around a Linux laptop and it's improved immensely in the past several years, but the experien…

> Even on the machines most well-supported by Linux, which are Intel x86 PCs with only integrated graphics and Intel wifi/bluetooth

Uhh, this is just untrue. I have it running on three different laptops from different vendors and Fedora, pop_OS!, and Ubuntu were all pretty much drop-in replacements for Windows, no problems.

You "keep around a Linux laptop" but I daily drive them and it's fine. Sure, there's the odd compatibility problem which could be dealbreaking, but it's not like MacOS is superior in that regard.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#902

Post by sfmike »

giobox wrote: post #641
the_king wrote: post #593

The single core performance looks really fast. Chip | Geekbench Score (Process) ---- | ------------------------ M1 | 2,419 (5nm) M2 | 2,658 (5nm) M3 | 3,076 (3nm) M4* | 3,810 (3nm) In my experience, single-core CPU is the best all-around indicator of how "fast" a machine feels. I feel like Apple kind of buried this in their press release. M4 benchmark source: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8171874

> I feel like Apple kind of buried this in their press release The press release describes the single core performance as the fastest ever made, full stop: "The M4 family features phenomenal single-threaded CPU performance with the world’s fastest CPU core" The same statement is made repeatedly across most the new M4 line up marketing materials. I think thats enough to get the point across that its a pretty quick mac…

I maybe don't understand but isn't an intel at 5.5ghz faster in terms of bits processed then the 4.4ghz m4? wouldn't that be fastest as more data can be processed?

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#903

Post by heraldgeezer »

theshrike79 wrote: post #862
heraldgeezer wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am thrilled to shell out thousands and thousands of dollars to purchase a machine that feels like it really belongs to me, from a company that respects my data and has aligned incentives. Build a desktop PC, yes like a nerdy gamer. ^_^ Install Linux Been the way for years.

Gamer + Linux is asking for trouble though.

You can build a workstation with Ryzen Threadripper.

What I meant is it been more popular to build your own PC for gamers due to price and customization.

Or for laptops, Thinkpad and Linux :)

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#904

Post by ferbivore »

traceroute66 wrote: post #679
lukev wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I wish the hardware were somehow more open, but to a large extent, it's directly because of hardware based privacy features. If you allowed third-party components without restraint, there'd be no way to prevent someone swapping out a component. Lock-in and planned obsolescence are also factors, and ones I'm glad the EU (and others) are pushing back here. But it isn't as if there are no legitimate tradeoffs.…

> I wish the hardware were somehow more open Some of us are old enough to remember the era of the officially authorised Apple clones in the 90's. Some of us worked in hardware repair roles at the time. Some of us remember the sort of shit the third-party vendors used to sell as clones. Some of us were very happy the day Apple called time on the authorised clone industry. The tight-knit integration between Apple OS an…

Nobody is asking for Mac clones, I just want to be able to replace the SSD when it dies...

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#905

Post by Writingdorky »

lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

You are just joking right?

From a skill and trust point of view, Google is doing a lot better than apple will ever.

Including ondevice AI

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#906

Post by lapcat »

lapcat wrote: post #59
scrlk wrote: post #2

Nano-texture option for the display is nice. IIRC it's the first time since the 2012 15" MBP that a matte option has been offered? I hope that the response times have improved, because it has been quite poor for a 120 Hz panel.

> IIRC it's the first time since the 2012 15" MBP that a matte option has been offered? The so-called "antiglare" option wasn't true matte. You'd really have to go back to 2008.

Correction: I think I actually misremembered that, sorry!

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#907

Post by zamadatix »

sfmike wrote: post #902
giobox wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like Apple kind of buried this in their press release The press release describes the single core performance as the fastest ever made, full stop: "The M4 family features phenomenal single-threaded CPU performance with the world’s fastest CPU core" The same statement is made repeatedly across most the new M4 line up marketing materials. I think thats enough to get the point across that its a pretty quick mac…

I maybe don't understand but isn't an intel at 5.5ghz faster in terms of bits processed then the 4.4ghz m4? wouldn't that be fastest as more data can be processed?

GHz represents the number of cycles per second, not the number of bits actually processed per second. On different CPUs the same instruction can take a different number of cycles, a different number of the instruction can be in flight at the same time, a different number of several different instructions can be issued at once, a different amount of data can be pulled from cache to feed these instructions, a different quality of instruction reordering and branch prediction, and so on.

As an example a single thread on an x64 core of an old Pentium 4 661 @ 3.6 GHz benchmarks at 315 with PassMark while a single x64 core of a current 285k @ 5.7 GHz turbo benchmarks at 5195. Some of that also comes down to things like newer RAM to feed the CPU but the vast majority comes down to the CPU calculating more bits per clock cycle.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#908

Post by rad_gruchalski »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #540
lukev wrote: post #535

I really respect Apple's privacy focused engineering. They didn't roll out _any_ AI features until they were capable of running them locally, and before doing any cloud-based AI they designed and rolled out Private Cloud Compute. You can argue about whether it's actually bulletproof or not but the fact is, nobody else is even trying, and have lost sight of all privacy-focused features in their rush to ship anything a…

> to purchase a machine that feels like it really belongs to me How true is this when they devices are increasingly hostile to user repair and upgrades? MacOS also tightens the screws on what you can run and from where, or at least require more hoop jumping over time.

What you see hostile to repair I see as not worth stealing. What you see as macOS dictating what you can run from where I see as an infiltration prevention.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#909

Post by zamadatix »

the_king wrote: post #652
giobox wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like Apple kind of buried this in their press release The press release describes the single core performance as the fastest ever made, full stop: "The M4 family features phenomenal single-threaded CPU performance with the world’s fastest CPU core" The same statement is made repeatedly across most the new M4 line up marketing materials. I think thats enough to get the point across that its a pretty quick mac…

Exactly my point. Saying something is the fastest ever is marketing code (at least to me) for minor improvement over the previous generation. If you're 30% faster than the previous generation, I'd rather see that because my assumption is it's 5%.

The article has all of the "x times faster than M1" notes but the video shows graphs with the M3 whenever they do that and it is usually ~1.2x in the CPU on that. I think it's probably a smart move this page (and the video) focused so much on 2x or greater performance increases from the M1 generation. After all, so what if it's 20% faster than the M3? As in: how many customers that weren't already interested in just buying the latest thing before reading your marketing material are you going to convince to upgrade from the M3 just because the M4 is ~20% faster vs trying to convince M1 users to upgrade because it's over twice as fast.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#910

Post by baggachipz »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #898

I suspect that like many here, I’m often tech support for my family. I found a Mac to be just as simple and troublefree to support as a Chromebook, but more capable. I was very pleasantly surprised, coming from mostly Windows (and a dash of Linux).

My parents simply refuse to consider anything but Windows, even though the ever-changing Windows UI keeps pissing them off. It's like a mental block or something.
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