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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#901

Post by The_Colonel »

pfdietz wrote: post #821
The_Colonel wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, US had a more built-up rail system in the past. But it's naive to think it died because of fair economic competition.

People certainly didn't complain about having paved roads, or being able to buy their own automobiles. I understand it's frustrating when the public goes charging off in a direction you don't want them to.

Another bad-faith argument. A built-up railway network is not incompatible with a built-up road network. Many countries have both working together (each serving use cases with their own strengths).

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#902

Post by The_Colonel »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #816
The_Colonel wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually observe reduction of parking spaces in public spaces. Although I don't think it could be an effect of Deutschlandticket, too little time to have an effect IMHO.

German cities have much less parking lots than American ones because of the way they were built. There may be a few that you can replace with a building, but not a lot.

In the first comment you seemed to have commented on the effect of the Deutschland ticket and now you seem to comment on the difference between US and German cities. Somehow I don't understand the connection between the two / your point.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#903

Post by ivan_gammel »

The_Colonel wrote: post #902
ivan_gammel wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German cities have much less parking lots than American ones because of the way they were built. There may be a few that you can replace with a building, but not a lot.

In the first comment you seemed to have commented on the effect of the Deutschland ticket and now you seem to comment on the difference between US and German cities. Somehow I don't understand the connection between the two / your point.

I‘m commenting on reduction of parking spaces. In Germany there’s not so much parking to observe any visible effects. USA was mentioned only for comparison, because they have a lot of parking and there it could be noticeable.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#904

Post by The_Colonel »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #903
The_Colonel wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the first comment you seemed to have commented on the effect of the Deutschland ticket and now you seem to comment on the difference between US and German cities. Somehow I don't understand the connection between the two / your point.

I‘m commenting on reduction of parking spaces. In Germany there’s not so much parking to observe any visible effects. USA was mentioned only for comparison, because they have a lot of parking and there it could be noticeable.

> In Germany there’s not so much parking to observe any visible effects.

That doesn't make sense. German streets are full of cars, partly because there's insufficient dedicated parking space. Lower car ownership would have a very visible effect on the streets.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#905

Post by Hugsun »

hskalin wrote: post #470
Hugsun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds amazing. All these prices seem crazy low. A significantly zone limited monthly commuter ticket here in Denmark costs over 500€

That sounds too high, even Switzerland isn't that expensive

It is indeed too high. It is the price though. Put in Aarhus H and København H here: https://pendlertjek.dsb.dk/

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#906

Post by Hugsun »

okr wrote: post #557
Hugsun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds amazing. All these prices seem crazy low. A significantly zone limited monthly commuter ticket here in Denmark costs over 500€

They are indeed crazily low. The real prize is just hidden by subsidy. But more and more the true cost will be revealed. There is no free lunch. But hey, germany could never really decide, are they living in an authoritarian, left or right utopian la-la-land or in a free country. For some time the american influence was huge, but i fear, the influence will diminish and the pendulum swings again.

I'd wager that those subsidies have very strong returns on investment. From a thermodynamic standpoint, trains are clearly the most efficient long distance transportation technology. The inefficiencies almost always appear as cost.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#907

Post by ivan_gammel »

The_Colonel wrote: post #904
ivan_gammel wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘m commenting on reduction of parking spaces. In Germany there’s not so much parking to observe any visible effects. USA was mentioned only for comparison, because they have a lot of parking and there it could be noticeable.

> In Germany there’s not so much parking to observe any visible effects. That doesn't make sense. German streets are full of cars, partly because there's insufficient dedicated parking space. Lower car ownership would have a very visible effect on the streets.

Yes, you can remove cars from the streets. My point is, you cannot use that space to increase urban density, because that space aren't parking lots. You can plant more trees, add bike lanes or convert the entire street to a pedestrian zone with a playground. But you cannot build there.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#908

Post by theendisney4 »

fire_lake wrote: post #454
owisd wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK offers aggressive discounts for advance purchasing tickets on long distance routes at quiet times, which works well.

Does it though? Trains are almost empty most of the time.

They drive to remote places for cheap parking. Sometimes all night. The lines often depart from densely populated cities and bring that large capacity to the countryside. You may get thousands of seats for 2-3 customers. In the other direction it is the same. Last miles people are packed like sardines and bring in all of the revenue. If you have 500 seats a 3 euro ticket would at least pay for the trip. 50 cents is better than nothing. Shops at the train station bring in a large part of the money.

There is also a panopticon effect where people behave themselves decently if people are watching.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#909

Post by LeanderK »

bowsamic wrote: post #900
LeanderK wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, i am in the opposite situation. Using the deutsche bahn for long distances is often horrible so I never thought I would miss it but omg I really didn't have a good experience with Uk trains. The ticketing is complicated and the trains were often so unbelievably dirty and run down. Never had this experience in an ICE. Okay there are sometimes issues like the toilet boing out of order or the restaurant clo…

> There are many things that the UK does better than Germany but trains they manage to do even worse The trains are better in the UK than in Germany

really not my experience. I have never seen such dirty trains in other european countries.

Would have been bearable if they would be at least fast, but they are not

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#910

Post by pfdietz »

The_Colonel wrote: post #901
pfdietz wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People certainly didn't complain about having paved roads, or being able to buy their own automobiles. I understand it's frustrating when the public goes charging off in a direction you don't want them to.

Another bad-faith argument. A built-up railway network is not incompatible with a built-up road network. Many countries have both working together (each serving use cases with their own strengths).

They are economically incompatible. Local rail links declined because the customers who would use them used road vehicles instead.
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