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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#901

Post by voisin »

forward1 wrote: post #883
htss2013 wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My furnace broke after 15 years. I called a business to fix it. They replaced the dead pump motor and it worked again. The repair guy was paid well and I was happy to pay. What exactly is inherently unethical about this?

How about the cost of producing and shipping the new motor pump, and the cost of disposing of the old one? And do you think the individuals who made the motor pump are treated and compensated fairly, or are they likely exploited in third-world dystopia to bring you (but mostly the business) cost savings? And this is saying nothing of the actual use of the furnace and all the energy it requires. And I have yet to see…

So any lack of ethics in the supply chain (which presumably goes back to raw materials) means the entire thing is unethical? I am not sure what definition of ethics this is, but it is so strict as to render everyone and everything unethical, so perhaps not a very useful definition.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#902

Post by voisin »

depressedpanda wrote: post #888
whyenot wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patagonia is an example of a company that is trying to be "decent" even after its founder is no longer involved. So far, it seems to be working. In tech, I am not aware of any good examples. I feel like Apple is one of the less bad compared to others. They are at least making efforts to be good about privacy, even if their motivation may be less than pure.

Apple might be less bad than, say Oracle, but it's still an evil mega corp. Their privacy angle is little more than mere marketing. Authoritarianism is in their DNA. By no stretch of the imagination is it an ethical company, and people really need to stop treating it as such.

> Their privacy angle is little more than mere marketing. Authoritarianism is in their DNA.

Do you have any evidence to support your statements? Any arguments or just conclusions?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#903

Post by tptacek »

Kon5ole wrote: post #804

Google makes me kind of sad. They used to be so cool, pushing technology forward, making it accessible to the masses, doing things that seemed almost impossible and making it mainstream. Ads were the money stream but they did it tastefully. Now the main page is all ads, dark patterns are everywhere in everything Google does. They've basically become one of the ethically worst technology companies around. Is it inevit…

If you're taking, say, the Google of 2014 as a reference point, they appear to have had a relatively small fraction of their current headcount at the time.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#904

Post by foinker »

Kon5ole wrote: post #804

Google makes me kind of sad. They used to be so cool, pushing technology forward, making it accessible to the masses, doing things that seemed almost impossible and making it mainstream. Ads were the money stream but they did it tastefully. Now the main page is all ads, dark patterns are everywhere in everything Google does. They've basically become one of the ethically worst technology companies around. Is it inevit…

The allure of short term profits is largely the point of all companies. Google in particular was never decent, they struck data harvesting gold with Search and Maps, then used the infinite money they were making off of advertisers to ensure that no other option besides Google could ever be viable, through manipulation of search results, manipulation of business customers, regulatory capture, etc. Now they are free to let the quality of their products slide into the abyss without fear of users jumping ship. Where would we jump to? This is what every tech company you've ever heard of has been striving to do for a couple of decades now. It's either that or create hype -> pump valuation -> sell the business to a larger entity before they have to answer for long-term stability.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#905

Post by fomine3 »

kentm wrote: post #826
Kon5ole wrote: post #804

Google makes me kind of sad. They used to be so cool, pushing technology forward, making it accessible to the masses, doing things that seemed almost impossible and making it mainstream. Ads were the money stream but they did it tastefully. Now the main page is all ads, dark patterns are everywhere in everything Google does. They've basically become one of the ethically worst technology companies around. Is it inevit…

I'm beginning to believe that it's just impossible to do advertising ethically. The hypothesis is that an advertising firm that attempts to do so will perform worse than ones doing unethical things, and eventually lose customers.

It's true for pure capitalism. What we need is strict regulation, but some regulation make situation worse.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#906

Post by depressedpanda »

voisin wrote: post #902
depressedpanda wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple might be less bad than, say Oracle, but it's still an evil mega corp. Their privacy angle is little more than mere marketing. Authoritarianism is in their DNA. By no stretch of the imagination is it an ethical company, and people really need to stop treating it as such.

> Their privacy angle is little more than mere marketing. Authoritarianism is in their DNA. Do you have any evidence to support your statements? Any arguments or just conclusions?

They cracked down on ads talking about privacy, to the applause of everyone. Then they launched their own ad tech service. It's obvious privacy was used as an excuse to make more money.

I hope you're not asking for any evidence of their authoritarianism, it should be apparent to anyone who knows anything about the company. They readily cooperate with authoritarian regimes; look at their behavior in China, or how they assisted the totalitarian regime in Belarus to the detriment of pro democracy protesters. "Obeying local laws" is not a valid excuse for unethical behavior, but is very convenient if all you care about is profit maximization.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#907

Post by jongjong »

35775436 wrote: post #131
jongjong wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, not to mention that many of these engineers were already paid a fortune and are extremely over-hyped as they were basically just tiny cogs in a huge machine and they can't actually build anything on their own... Which is what is required for building software outside of big tech.

I agree. At the end of the day, FAANG engineers are just employees. I never understood the hype or the prestige they get. Also, unrelated but I've read your other comments and they are on point, you're too smart for HN. I say this unironically. This place can wear a man down fast.

Thanks for the compliment. IMO, the concentration of smart people here is still very high. In most other forums, people don't even understand what I'm saying. Here it's like most people understand my comments but they disagree because they have an interest not to agree and so they require a higher standard of proof.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#908

Post by fomine3 »

rsanek wrote: post #898
JAlexoid wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long story short - I would advise to not go into debt for a top tier CS degree, unless truly passionate. I am fortunate enough to have been educated in Europe and without any student debt. I can switch careers, without needing to keep income at a level to pay living expenses and loans.

most student loans in the US have very low required minimum payments. that's part of why these loans can stick around for decades.

APR is another important factor

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#909

Post by [deleted] »

Kon5ole wrote: post #804

Google makes me kind of sad. They used to be so cool, pushing technology forward, making it accessible to the masses, doing things that seemed almost impossible and making it mainstream. Ads were the money stream but they did it tastefully. Now the main page is all ads, dark patterns are everywhere in everything Google does. They've basically become one of the ethically worst technology companies around. Is it inevit…

[deleted]

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#910

Post by wh0knows »

Matumio wrote: post #767
riffraff wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wanted to tax the wealth.. have a wealth tax? It's a thing in countries including Norway and Switzerland, and similar things exist in others (e.g. Italy taxes assets in some weird non linear way).

Yes there is a wealth tax in Switzerland, but... it would have to be much higher to make a difference. Raising it will not pass a referendum, which it practically has to in Switzerland. It has one big advantage, though: official numbers about wealth distribution. I think micro taxation on all transactions (including at ATMs) would work better. Easier to explain, harder to avoid since you tax both sides of each transa…

Aren’t these taxations generally regressive given poor people spend ~100% of their income and ultra rich people spend <1%. So you’re taxing the poor person on all of their money but barely taxing the rich person.
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