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Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

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Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#901

Post by tragicfootball »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #643
RickS wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(ex-Adobe, on a team highly related to an area where Figma out-executed XD, less knowledge about genAI stuff) > Adobe has probably captured back both mental and market share from Figma GenAI/Firefly's success is in a totally different domain to what Figma's doing. Figma's equivalent at Adobe is XD, which has never held a candle to Figma. The existential problem Adobe tried to buy their way out of still exists in the…

> (which is part of the basis of Firefly's success – significantly cleaner legal provenance on their training data). Yeah... I mean the pre-trained text encoder Firefly uses is filled with copyrighted, unlicensed-for-express-purpose training data. Firefly is successful in the same sense that DocuSign is, in that it is selling a holistic social experience, but I think maybe don't opine on "legal provenance on their tr…

I agree the problems you've mentioned here, but I don't think it's because of Figma or any tooling.

It's How Capitalism Works™

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#902

Post by himaraya »

> The decision by Adobe and Figma to spike their $20 billion merger on Monday dented the imminent dream of startup riches for Figma investors and employees. But Figma’s business is still growing quicker than that of most mature startups, potentially putting it in position for an initial public offering in 2025 or later. And the billion-dollar breakup fee from Adobe will strengthen Figma’s already robust balance sheet.

> The design software firm expects to finish this year with over $600 million in annual recurring revenue, an increase of more than 40% over the past year, people familiar with the matter said. The San Francisco–based company has also been generating cash for a few years, the people said. That financial picture likely makes it one of the best-performing late-stage private tech companies, particularly in a year when many firms have struggled with sagging growth rates as corporate clients have cut their software spending.

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/figma-grew-fast-even...

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#903

Post by xvector »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #844
xvector wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a good thing when it's taken to absurd lengths. See Lina Khan's attempt to block the Within Unlimited acquisition. The problem with the current administration is that there's no good-faith path forwards to get anything done. If you have worked with the FTC recently you'd understand what a hostile clusterfuck it is.

I want it to be taken to absurd lengths. If and/or when the negative ramifications of discouraging mergers/acquisitions even begin to approach the damage that encouraging them has done to our economy and society, and only then, we can consider slowly reducing the pressure against.

M&A has done far more good for society than damage to it. A lot of human achievements are only achievable with scale.

It makes zero sense to discourage a non-monopolistic M&A.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#904

Post by IAmGraydon »

krsdcbl wrote: post #673
RickS wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(ex-Adobe, on a team highly related to an area where Figma out-executed XD, less knowledge about genAI stuff) > Adobe has probably captured back both mental and market share from Figma GenAI/Firefly's success is in a totally different domain to what Figma's doing. Figma's equivalent at Adobe is XD, which has never held a candle to Figma. The existential problem Adobe tried to buy their way out of still exists in the…

As a graphics designer of almost 20 years i have to heavily agree. Firefly is nice for drafting and dabbling with stuff that once would've been served by stock sites, but aside picking a few demo images or making some abstract pattern backgrounds here and there, this has close to zero overlap with the UI/UX into development & design system management process Figma serves. It's almost like saying the Bing bot eats awa…

> Adobe has been committed to absolutely dismantling the UX of Photoshop

Tangential, but as a user of PS for 25 years who has experienced their UX changes since version 4, I’m curious what you mean by this.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#905

Post by never_inline »

Invictus0 wrote: post #345
samhuk wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Force startups to aspire to create an actual product rather I'm getting on to 10 years in the software industry as an engineer at the moment and in my view this is one of its most disappointing and frustrating aspects. The whole software start-up scene just feels saturated with FIRE-obsessed individuals who prefer just about anything (money, vacation, travel, fame, ...) over company, product, real building, craftsm…

[flagged]

Dear sir, we are talking about products that are not enshittified. Nothing about rust.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#906

Post by IAmGraydon »

obmelvin wrote: post #843
doctorpangloss wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (which is part of the basis of Firefly's success – significantly cleaner legal provenance on their training data). Yeah... I mean the pre-trained text encoder Firefly uses is filled with copyrighted, unlicensed-for-express-purpose training data. Firefly is successful in the same sense that DocuSign is, in that it is selling a holistic social experience, but I think maybe don't opine on "legal provenance on their tr…

The lowest estimate I see for Figma's ARR is $200m, so to suggest that even $500m is a high valuation is just untethered from the facts

Yes, but Adobe was going to buy them at 100x revenue. Thats quite insane.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#908

Post by exodust »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #904
krsdcbl wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a graphics designer of almost 20 years i have to heavily agree. Firefly is nice for drafting and dabbling with stuff that once would've been served by stock sites, but aside picking a few demo images or making some abstract pattern backgrounds here and there, this has close to zero overlap with the UI/UX into development & design system management process Figma serves. It's almost like saying the Bing bot eats awa…

> Adobe has been committed to absolutely dismantling the UX of Photoshop Tangential, but as a user of PS for 25 years who has experienced their UX changes since version 4, I’m curious what you mean by this.

I think they meant "XD". They must have since the UX of Photoshop has not been dismantled in any way, shape or form.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#909

Post by paulddraper »

drexlspivey wrote: post #893
paulddraper wrote: post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m surprised break-up fees aren’t negotiated as an investment That would be very awkward (and even dangerous) to have a competitor as an investor.

As opposed to them buying 100% of the company?

Correct

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#910

Post by habitue »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #892
015a wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: Figma's ARR in 2022 was around $400M. That $1B cash infusion could be invested in treasuries with an ARR of ~$50M; this isn't just a liquidity infusion of a billion dollars, it increases their net income by like 10%, basically free of charge.

You're confusing revenue with net income. Plus, if the best that Figma can do with a billion dollars is just invest it in Treasuries (and I'm not saying that's the case), then they should just give it to their shareholders and see if they can get a better return. I only point this out because many people are often confused by the effects of higher interest rates, e.g. "Why did this company lay off all these people wh…

I think they're saying net income because they're assuming there wasn't any cost for it. But they do have to pay taxes on it, and the lawyers and executives time spent on trying to make the deal work did cost something. Probably much higher margin work than their core business though.

If only you could repeatedly negotiate and then recover breakup fees as a business..

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