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The pro-Israel information war

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#901

Post by adastra22 »

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #620
mastrsplyntr wrote: post #395

Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…

Don’t forget about stretching the American military thin against China (our real political foe) and the fact Israel has illegal nukes and is willing to end humanity if they ever lose their homeland.

Israel has no capability to "end humanity" with their nukes. Only the USA and Russia have that many nukes.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#902

Post by adastra22 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #404
fxd123 wrote: post #222

> which also included a denunciation of the “Zionist ideology which promotes an exclusivist state,” That's an interesting claim, since Israel is definitely not a exclusivist state. Yet again, 'anti-zionism' seems to be used as a dog whistle for anti-semitism This article is pretty bad, it screams the typical "jews run the media" trope The authors also collaborated on an article called 'Moderna is spying on you'. So t…

Not an exclusivist state, really? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-la... Basically every human rights org has come out and declared it an apartheid state based off how non-Jews are treated within Israel proper and in Israeli-occupied territory.

What are you referring to? 2 million Arab Israelis enjoy all the rights and freedoms of being an Israeli citizen without any restrictions. They vote, they travel, they are allowed to practice their religion.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#903

Post by Unfrozen0688 »

submeta wrote: post #492
Unfrozen0688 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

„ The phrase was also used by the Israeli ruling Likud party as part of their 1977 election manifesto which stated "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." This slogan was repeated by Menachem Begin.“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea

The swastika (卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures. In the West it is widely recognized for having been appropriated by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis

Context matters

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#904

Post by timeu »

adastra22 wrote: post #899
nojvek wrote: post #675

I really wished Israel didn’t blatantly start airbombing Gaza civilian infrastructure and blockade food, water, gas. When Russia does this on Ukraine, we call them war criminals but when Israel does it on Palestinians we call it business as usual. The idea of military revenge doesn’t get us anywhere. Defense is the best offense. Little gains the world made in Middle East stability have now been reversed for decades.…

What, specifically, should they have done instead?

After an initial military response, take their time and specifically plan and target the terrorists who were responsible and organized the attacks on the 7.10. Yeah this will obviously take way longer and is harder than levelling Gaza but would avoid eventually bringing the entire world against you and producing much more terrorists than before. At the same time also try to make sure that the civilians in Gaza get humanitarian aid, so you remove the breeding ground for terrorism. This approach was also suggested by Jocko Willink retured Navy Seal (https://youtu.be/3O4dW24az98)

But the mistakes happened way before by moving troops away from the Gaza border to West Bank to protect illegal settlements and also supporting Hamas as an opposition to PLO. Don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong the world would be a better place without Hamas however your policy has to be strategic and not emotional (i.e. revenge)

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#905

Post by Shawnj2 »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think there is an information war Israel is still winning just because they have more media resources. Accurate and unbiased information about what is happening in Gaza is somewhat hard to find while Israel has a lot of reliable information supporting anything they want. The information that does come out from Gaza spreads farther, unfortunately a lot of which is wrong because people spread unreliable sources, but information from Israel supporting their positions is greater and more accurate because they have more media resources.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#906

Post by adastra22 »

timeu wrote: post #904
adastra22 wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, specifically, should they have done instead?

After an initial military response, take their time and specifically plan and target the terrorists who were responsible and organized the attacks on the 7.10. Yeah this will obviously take way longer and is harder than levelling Gaza but would avoid eventually bringing the entire world against you and producing much more terrorists than before. At the same time also try to make sure that the civilians in Gaza get hu…

What about the hostages?

What about border security?

Doing what you say would basically be letting Hamas have their win. It would absolutely embolden them to plan an execute further attacks.

The game theory is absolutely clear here. When an attack of this magnitude is carried out, you need to respond with overwhelming force to cutoff the possibility of further escalation. Stop it cold.

When Hamas invaded Israel and massacred civilians en masse, an invasion of Gaza was made inevitable. Restraint here is the significant effort that has been taken by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#907

Post by mandmandam »

hackerlight wrote: post #824
mandmandam wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is entirely regurgitated Israeli propaganda that has been repeatedly debunked. I'll be as polite as I can about this, and take it one step at a time. > Okay - then what should be Israel's response? The world has been clear about this. Stop killing civilians and treat Palestinians as humans with rights. > what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. That'…

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what Israel should do from here. Presumably you want a ceasefire, but then what? The problem from Israel's perspective regarding a ceasefire is that Hamas isn't just an ideology that can be charmed out of existence with good behavior. It's also an autocratic/theocratic government. These government structures don't go away even if the conditions that lead to their initial support a…

> Jews will never accept being an ethnic minority after the last few thousand years of endless pogroms including from MENA countries, literal survival will always trump everything else

> that's the reality

I'm not convinced that you're actually looking for a peaceful solution. The best you can imagine is a permanent DMZ so that Israel maintains an ethnic majority? Do Palestinians get to decide what they want to do at all, or is that just for Israel?

A ceasefire is not really optional. If Israel continues with this genocide, as they seem committed to doing, then America's support will grow untenable. All Israel's atrocities - undeniable, caught on video and seen by the world atrocities - are only possible with the support of the US war machine.

The US just vetoed the UN's call for a ceasefire, despite 61% of Americans wanting a ceasefire. Do you see that?? That's 61% of Israel's staunchest ally, telling them they're going way too far. People are waking up, and they're wondering why the fuck we're complicit in war crimes in full view of the world (again).

How long do you think America can sustain this support of mass murder? It's morally indefensible, and a permanent stain on our history.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#908

Post by mclightning »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #802
timeagain wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does how many Muslims there are have to do with anything? Israel is not at war with the Muslim community they are at war with a single country which is not even all Muslim. Seems like shaky rhetoric.

> Why does how many Muslims there are have to do with anything? Israel is not at war with the Muslim community they are at war with a single country which is not even all Muslim. Seems like shaky rhetoric. But the muslim community is at war with Israel and the jews, given the rabid antisemitism in every corner of MENA and beyond, like in Indonesia and Pakistan. Antisemitism is the normal in all these places. I guess…

What a load of BS.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#910

Post by selestify »

yodsanklai wrote: post #718
meowface wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

> When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Considering that they killed 15K+ civilians in various ways in just a couple of weeks , and bombed two thirds of the buildings in north gaza including hospitals, refugee camps, they were certainly not trying very hard not to kill them. So practically, this doesn't make a big difference. It seems the order were "bomb anything that may have a hamas member nearby, and don…

Considering that those very hospitals were used as military bases and that Hamas is hiding among the population, the numbers alone don’t say anything about how hard Israel is trying or not trying to kill civilians.

Besides, even if that were the order, that doesn’t make it illegal or immoral. Destroying military assets is an essential part of war. If you want civilian losses to be minimized, you’d do well to keep military assets clearly delineated from civilian zones. If you don’t and your people die as a result… well, that’s on you, not on the enemy you’re fighting.

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