Live data from Hacker News

Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

reason.com

901–906 of 906 posts

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#901

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, while I was an exchange student in the US, I got that exact speach house from a friend's father ("hands on the wheel unless asked to do otherwise, stay friendly, no sudden moves"). However, I was very white (a geek who didn't get out much) and he was a white Mormon. That was in 1997 and since my friend had obviously heard that speech many times before, I just assumed that's what all kids are taught over there...

Did he tell you about how you shouldn't act suspicious when you walk into a convenience store lest the employees stalk you? Did he warn you that attempting to sell a house in this country will automatically result in a lower sale price from your own agent than if you were white? There are literally hundreds of these examples.

Notice how you're moving the goalpost.

> shouldn't act suspicious when you walk into a convenience store lest the employees stalk you

I understand it's tempting to blame it on racism, but please go talk to non-white store owners. They do the same thing, it's not about the race.

You have to pick which battle you're going to fight.

Either racism today is the major problem. Or there's racism in the past that lead to poverty in the present. Those are two different lenses dictating two different strategies.

You can choose to feel righteous and fight ever-elusive racism.

Or you can chose to be pragmatic and fight poverty.

Being righteous is definitely more pleasant and convincing to the masses, but it rarely produces better results than being pragmatic.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#902

He’s right to do so. Statements that your research must be presented with a filter based on how it will advance political goals calls into question the integrity of all research. When people don’t “trust the science” this will be why. But further, I’d never seen the statement from antiracist before…wow. The idea that the only cure for discrimination is discrimination is akin to saying the only cure for violence is vi…

I never understand the American way to fix these issue. They do have good intention, we can see that, but somehow the perspective of how they see the problem is distorted, which let to distorted answer. I think many of us can see it, but can't say it aloud.

Unless we see others as friends — that everyone is flawed human being, including yourself, that share this same world, and one day have to left this world altogether sooner or later, then I don't see how this problem will genuinely get fixed.

What they did instead is amped up individualistic ego and make the divide even more...divide.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#905

He’s right to do so. Statements that your research must be presented with a filter based on how it will advance political goals calls into question the integrity of all research. When people don’t “trust the science” this will be why. But further, I’d never seen the statement from antiracist before…wow. The idea that the only cure for discrimination is discrimination is akin to saying the only cure for violence is vi…

After decades/centuries of abuse, how does "forgiveness" fix systemic issues? Forgiveness can't fix the fact that black Americans were denied access to loans, houses, GI Bill provisions, and all sorts of opportunities that were the primary source of household wealth gains for the last 75 years. It can't fix the fact that those gains mean white people have, on average, more access to "a small loan" from a family membe…

Regardless, there must be a system.

Part of a functioning, healthy system is recompense/justice, and yes foregiveness.

If you tear a system down, even if you manage to shift some power balance, you stand to create a situation as bad or worse than the one you began with.

Unless a core value of the system you seek to create is forgiveness, you only stand to substitute one systemic opression for another.

Put in terms perhaps you might understand, african americans, hispanics are not forgiven their crimes, where often those with wealth and influence or socially favorable bias are (often) foregiven.

Adding more henious lanaguage, attitude to the mix does not help, when it can be redirected at those still in a position of relative powerlessness.

Some specific crimes should be punished harder (rapists especially in college and positions of power should immediately be punished and severely), at the same time where we are willing to dole out forgiveness, that should be equally given.

You cannot have one without the other.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing racial bias to solely and precisely "skin color", and not the cultural biases that come with it is itself missing the point. Begin biased against Black skin is a problem (and is the important bit in some instances). Being biased against "Black" names is also a problem, even if you can devise situations where the name is attached to a person who doesn't have Black skin. And both are racism, because they are d…

> Being biased against "Black" names is also a problem, even if you can devise situations where the name is attached to a person who doesn't have Black skin. And both are racism, because they are directed at people based on the assumption that they are in a particular ethnic group, even if that assumption is wrong. You assume a racist motive in your scenario, but what if the bias is actually towards all unfamiliar na…

"I'm not biased only against Black people, I'm actually biased against anything that is sufficiently non-white" (in this context, since we're talking about a study of conventionally WASP-y vs. black names) is not the slam dunk you think it is. And it's still racist.

> You assume a racist motive in your scenario

No, I don't assume any motive whatsoever. I'm talking only about actions.

Post reply on HN