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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#901

Post by 6nf »

rescripting wrote: post #827
6nf wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. This is not correct. The Ottawa police have repeatedly said that they're ready to arrest anyone breaking the law but currently it is not illegal to park in public roads with trucks and the truck drivers are mostly abiding by all laws. Less than half a dozen people have been arrested because there's no laws being broken. The reason they are not doing any enforcement is…

Ottawa resident here, this is so far off base I’d call it propaganda. Fireworks in the downtown core nightly. Air horns for days on end. Harassment, assaults and intimidation targeted towards minorities or those wearing a mask. Public urination, defication. Even “it’s not illegal to park on public roads” is false because they’re parked across all lanes, blocking north/south access to several blocks.

How many people have been arrested for breaking laws? Last I checked it was 4.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#902

Post by disambiguation »

squarefoot wrote: post #274

I'm usually all in favor of workers protesting; not this time however. During war time food and resources are rationed; does people complain against the government? Nope. So why during a pandemic that in just two years killed 5 fucking millions people -and counting- should they protest against perfectly sound measures? Am I missing something, or "get vaccinated" doesn't even sound close to "one loaf of bread per day…

"get vaccinated" is to "one loaf of bread" as "honk for freedom" is to "the bolshevik revolution"

people get war fatigue all the same.

Further an authoritarian regime is perfectly sound as long as they're perfectly behaved. You shouldn't protest against that, agreed?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#903

Post by 6nf »

rpeden wrote: post #830
6nf wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. This is not correct. The Ottawa police have repeatedly said that they're ready to arrest anyone breaking the law but currently it is not illegal to park in public roads with trucks and the truck drivers are mostly abiding by all laws. Less than half a dozen people have been arrested because there's no laws being broken. The reason they are not doing any enforcement is…

Can you find where they said that? Because their press release says otherwise: https://www.ottawapolice.ca/Modules/News/index.aspx?page=2&n... As noted in the release, blocking a public road the way they've been doing seems to be a violation of section 423(g) of the Criminal Code: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-423.ht... Note that the Criminal Code defines "highway" as "a road to which the publ…

The roads are not blocked, the truckers have kept lanes open for emergency vehicles etc.

The police have begged repeatedly for people to report lawbreaking to them so they can arrest more people.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#904

Post by mdoms »

defaultname wrote: post #277
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope the response is a protest escalation" That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Sign petiti…

Did you feel the same way about BLM protestors who shut down "autonomous zones" in several major cities?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#905

Post by pixelcloud »

b112 wrote: post #722
Tiktaalik wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron may be "mild" to healthy, vaccinated people, but it's a serious, deadly health threat to the unvaccinated elderly. Accordingly places where transmission is likely (eg. a small intimate restaurant) are serious and potentially deadly health risks to the elderly, unvaccinated part of the population. So long as our hospitals are overwhelmed (as they currently are) it's a very bad idea to open up these high transm…

This is a strange comment to me. In all provinces, the elderly were the very first to get vaccinated. First. First to get second vaccinations, and for a long time, the only group allowed to even get a third shot. There are no unvaccinated elderly people running around, unless they insist on not being vaccinated. In such cases, that's their choice, and no one should take additional precautions for those opting out. Yo…

This doesn't change anything in terms of hospital capacities here. The surgery backlog is massive, the hospitals are overrun with covid patients. Taking additional precautions is an attempt to try to protect the larger populations access to healthcare.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#906

Post by __blockcipher__ »

pkd wrote: post #293
busymom0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations. It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence. I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than fri…

Are you friends federal government employees? If not, then the vaccination policy is enacted by the corporation they work for, not the government. I'm glad you have felt at home at the protests, I'm sure if you tried to ask critical questions about vaccine efficiency and the active participation of far right extremists like Pat King in the protests, you'd have received a much colder welcome. Thousands of people in Ot…

> At least 1000 workers of the Rideau Center are out of a job because the protestors kept trying to force their way into the shops without masks.

Those workers are "out of a job" because of the very COVID policies that the truckers et al are rallying against. COVID did not take away those jobs. COVID policies did.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#907

Post by amscanne »

BeefWellington wrote: post #822
amscanne wrote: post #93

> We’re not suspending the fundamental rights or overriding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we are not limiting people’s freedom of speech, we are not limiting freedom of peaceful assembly (or) preventing people from exercising their right to protest legally Pretending to express concern about charter rights with respect to towing some trucks away is quite the theatre. Meanwhile, Canada spent the last two years s…

> Meanwhile, Canada spent the last two years stomping on charter rights: mobility (provincial borders closed, unjustified quarantine requirements even for vaccinated Canadians), free expression (court orders to silence anti-vaxxers), and free assembly (unvaccinated in Quebec are unable to attend weddings, funerals, religious services or pretty much anything with over 25 people) to name a few. Ironically, a lot of the…

I’m aware of these facts. Although the charter is a federal document, my disappointment does indeed lie in mostly provincial judges and legislatures. This recent article [1] provides a few good examples.

In terms of the targeting of the protests — I agree, it makes little sense. But it’s a bunch of angry, not-so-rational people. In any case, I suspect the federal government does have a lot of sway, and would still be able influence quite a lot. Trudeau has a pen and a phone, as Obama would say. I’m sure that the lifting of the border exemptions was not unilateral on either side, and there are symbolic things that federal government could do (such as setting an expiration vaccine requirements for domestic air travel).

In the end, I think Trudeau has backed himself into a corner. He probably could have preempted this by “listening to the science” and recommending a relaxation plan with a reasonable timeframe (even if it relied on provincial cooperation) before the convoy reached Ottawa — for example, the UK announced exactly this in mid-January (well before the convoy). Instead he politicized the issue with his “unacceptable views” speech, and pissed a lot of people off. Now, he has little that he can do directly (and the things above are probably off the table, since they require back-tracking) and is arguably making an even bigger mess of it (refusal to meet, going into hiding, now declaring emergency measures).

I suspect that the current rush to open in many US states is a recognition of the same underlying sentiment, and a desire to avoid political issues.

[1] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/covid-19-pandemic-restr...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#908

Post by __blockcipher__ »

rtpg wrote: post #215
busymom0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations. It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence. I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than fri…

"got natural immunity which is superior" is factually incorrect, at least to every statistical study done by national health orgs. I see many people say "this person, who is vaccinated but got COVID anyways, is allowed to do X. Other person, who has a negative COVID test but am not vaccinated, cannot. That is hypocritical." Can someone explain the hypocrisy? People do get that negative COVID tests have relatively lit…

> "got natural immunity which is superior" is factually incorrect, at least to every statistical study done by national health orgs.

Natural immunity of an unvaccinated person is superior to a vaccinated person without natural immunity, all else equal, and the difference isn't even close. It concerns me that people still don't accept this.

See https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... for conclusive proof of this. I don't have my notes on that study in front of me right now but off the top of my head natural immunity was at least 7x superior when compared to people who were double-vaccinated but with no exposure to the actual virus.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#909

Post by tomjakubowski »

0xy wrote: post #344
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

Let's see where your data comes from. Ah, COVID-19 Monitor, which gets it from Vox Pop Labs. [1] >The data presented herein are derived from survey data produced using Vox Pop Labs' online public affairs panel So, it's useless... their primary method of polling is journalists interviewing people that they select? The people that do not support mandates generally do not support journalists, making this survey utterly…

The pew survey you linked is from February of last year, before vaccines were available and before their extreme effectiveness in preventing serious illness was known. Have they done more recent surveys in those countries you mentioned? More to the point, have they surveyed Canada recently?

France is well known as a vaccine hesitant country for what it's worth.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#910

Post by shermablanca »

monkeydreams wrote: post #899
rmbyrro wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth looking for a common ground that accommodates free speech and sleeping? My personal opinion: your threshold to kill free speech is way, WAY too low.

You think that the onus is on the sleepers rather than the protestors? Why should the sleepers have to put up with endless noise (along with the damage that sleeplessness brings) just so another person can exercise their right to free speech?

What makes you think they’re honking all through the night? From what I’ve heard they stop at 8:00pm. Claims to the contrary do not come with corresponding evidence.

Anyone here with on the ground experience about the nighttime situation?

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